To the two ladies at Dingwall Road bus stop in Croydon at 16.15pm today ...

[ArbitersCarbiters]

It is never acceptable for you (without permission) to reach out and touch a black woman’s hair.

How would you feel if a complete stranger came up to you on the street, complimented your hair cut and then immediately reached out their hands to run it through your hair?

You crossed an unacceptable boundary in doing so.

In case you were still wondering:
(A) One of you being 72 years of age is not an excuse.
(B) You thinking it is beautiful and that your actions were meant as a compliment is not an excuse.
(C) The owner of said hair smiling and laughing it off is not an excuse.*

*This is most important because as soon as she got on that bus i.e. away from your inappropriate wandering hands, she expressed that she was exhausted after a long day at work, froze when you did what you did and didn’t have the wherewithal or energy to tell you how unacceptable it was for fear of hurting your feelings and/or being labelled as aggressive/overreacting. I know this feeling well as I have very often experienced and felt the same thing (so has she in the past, in case you were wondering). This is why I spoke for her. This is why I told you it was not an acceptable thing to act so intimately with a person you had never met. This is why I told you that she had said nothing to you for fear that she would cause you offence. In doing so, I was speaking for the many of us who have to put up with this shit everyday.

I imagine you will go home and talk about the angry busybody black woman who had the temerity to question your right to touch another woman’s hair. Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice. But trust me when I tell you that I was angry. Remember this the next time you feel like complimenting someone in such a demeaning, inappropriate way. We are not pets whose fur you can ruffle at will. We are not children. We are women, just like you, who hold the right to go about our daily business without fear of being touched intimately by a stranger.

AIBU?

@Twinning1 How do you know she wasn't racist? How can you be so absolutely sure? Why do we only accept racism exists when slurs are used? Why don't we listen to people when they tell us they experience it in their every day interactions?

Wow, NoFuckingRoomonBroom unbelievable! Reporting a thread on which you have denied white privilege and supported racist views!??

How can you assert that the incident didn't happen?!! The chances are it happened thousands of times to thousands of women today.

Fiintastic I find your posts offensive. White privilege does exist, there is quite a lot of information about it. Easy to google and it's quite eye-opening.

But I think you're having a high old time on this thread and you won't. Says much.

Reporting a thread because your views are being challenged and people are refusing to be shouted down by cries of denial is pretty laughable.

'Black women are often presented as raunchy video girls, baby mamas bearing children with unknown and often multiple fathers, and sexually willing characters often inviting of sexual objectification. These depictions transcend the confines of the media, and penetrate and manifest themselves in everyday society.' (Vanessa Ntinu).

Black women are often depicted as objects that are sexually available for men at all times. Black women are sexualised in specific ways, seen as inherently sexual and animalistic, with a heavy focus on body shape, particularly the posterior.

This manifests into society (male or female) believing they have the right to touch black women's hair. They even think they're bestowing a kindness on black women by admiring their hair, in a way that they wouldn't with a white woman.

Also, I'm not black, but I wonder if people assume black women all wear weaves and therefore they feel they have the right to touch their hair because it's not actually the black woman's hair?

I think that racism does not equal “I like your hair”... it is madness!

I think it’s like the twin thing I experience. People are interested in something that is different to what they see day to day. Mostly people mean well, especially older ladies that want to squeeze my babies cheeks and tell me “double trouble” with a wink. They mean well, and that is key here. I could get all batshit crazy and slap their hands away but mostly I smile and nod because they mean well.

Yes it's clearly bullshit. Because it doesn't resonate with your experience so it must be made up

Twinning, being black is nithibg like having twins. You’re embarrassing yourself with the comparison.

I’m my 20s in London I had very think long blonde hair and it was frequently touched by strangers as they bought it was beautiful, my black friend had her hair touched as people were curious as though she was a rare being to be prodded. My friends mix race son has people touch his Afro for a similar reason. I think that crossed the line into racism?

*when I was in my 20s, I’m a lot older now!

@Twinning1 I don't think it's as cut and dry as hair touching= racist although that's what some posters have been determined to boil this down to. It's more about that experience being something that has is rooted in the systematic fetishisation and othering of black women for centuries. I appreciate that it need to be unpacked if it's not something people are familiar with but that's a far cry from denouncing it all together which is nothing short of offensive.

I disagree that this sort of behaviour happens more to Black people too. People cross boundaries for all sorts of reasons. A woman that is flirting with a man and squeezes his arm “oooh you obviously work out”, people that touch my babies and ask me if I breastfeed my twins, a man that pinches the bum of an attractive lady in a busy nightclub... all personal space violations in my opinion.

Bottom line is... if it makes you feel uncomfortable then you should speak up. I will never accept that this is a race or sex issue though.

I have had my curls touched by random people before.

It didn’t bother me at the time and I actually felt a bit pleased.

The difference is I’m a white woman and have none of the history behind the behaviour.

I wonder sometimes if subconsciously some people think it acceptable to touch a black woman’s hair because the feel the are ‘above’ black people (the unconscious racist) and the black woman has lower rights to body autonomy than white women.

I imagine the two white ladies at the bus stop thought they were being kind and flattering the black lady as if they had been truly racist they wouldn’t have touched the black lady at all BUT that does not make it acceptable.

I do think you may have overstepped a bit OP as you cannot project what you feel onto others and as you said the black lady didn’t seem distressed, ask you for help or tell the white ladies to stop.
I do agree that you could’ve stepped in had it escalated at all though.

Twinning, are you black? If not, why are you presuming to speak on behalf of back people and declaring that this isn’t a race issue. It’s not your experience.

I hate the term white privilege too... I think only sets out to make the “gap” wider. I can guarantee that the lady that did the hair touching

Didn’t mean it in a racist sense and most likely thinking she was being kind.

I disagree that this sort of behaviour happens more to Black people too

You can disagree all you want. If you're not a black person, your disagreement only serves to invalidate the experience of black people. I hope that makes you feel good about yourself.

It's a race issue. I used to have waist length hair, so pretty unusual hair right? Yet complete strangers never touched my hair. They admired it verbally, and there it stopped. But by their own testimony, it happens to black women all the time.

I’m white with naturally bright red Afro hair. It is unusual, and people touch it all the time. Some people have actually grabbed it :(. I hate it being touched but don’t always say anything.

I do think this is more about boundaries than race, people feel they automatically have the right to touch anything they are interested in.

Bottom line is... if it makes you feel uncomfortable then you should speak up. I will never accept that this is a race or sex issue though.

So, you've delared you're not going to listen to anyone, and you think tgats something to be proud of? Good grief.

P.S. You're not the only person with twins, and I totally disagree that having twins is like belong to a racial minority.

It’s a race issue but it’s not racist!

Yanbu.

Never in my life have I felt the desire, or right, the stroke another persons hair, regardless of how lovely it is. It isn’t normal or acceptable to do so.

I’ve got red hair and I live in the Middle East (and previously in SE Asia). I don’t think a week goes by without someone asking about/touching my hair. I get that it’s unusual and I can’t really get too worked up about it, TBH.