Pansexual? AIBU to not understand how this isn't different to Bi?

[GoatWoman]

I really don't understand this new phenomena and I feel completely ignorant.
In my day (80's - 90's), if not having a sexual preference you termed yourself bisexual. Not that anybody has to classify themselves at all.

But recently I hear more of pan-sexual. What on earth does it mean? The only explanation I've heard is that they choose the mind over biology. Isn't that what everyone does?

You've had sex with men and women- that means that you're bisexual, even if you only have sex with men or women for the rest of your life. You can't identify out of being bisexual, surely? Please don’t simplify things. It’s 2018. We don’t do that here.

The problem is the use of the word pansexual. Why use a prefix that is well known and understood to mean 'all', and then go 'ah, but it means something completely different'?

Agree with OP's that no ones that bothered really. I too can't keep up with all the latest names. Who cares?

Scrambled I don't see how it doesn't mean all? If you're pan you could be attracted to anyone of any/all gender presentations. Clearly you're not going to be sexually attracted to literally all people or all things, because that would be ridiculous.

I am uneasy about ‘identify as’, and any other language that implicitly controls others. Saying ‘I identify as bi’ seems pretty harmless, but if you’re like the woman in my example upthread and are only having sex with one sex of human, you are not bi, but you’re telling others that your reality is more important than theirs.

I say ‘control’ because objective reality exists beyond humans’ self identification, and we have language so we can describe it. I am bi because I engage in bisexual behaviour, so I can be observed to be bi, and others can rely on having a standard word in the language available to describe what they see.

Some food for thought Sporadic, thank you. I think to be honest, I just used "identify as" and "am" mostly interchangeably, but I'll have a think from now on about which is more appropriate in different contexts.

I think it's a bullshit term, sorry. But then I'm not a fan of putting labels on people. The term infers that straight/bi/gay people only find men/women who conform to their gender stereotype attractive which just isn't true. My best friend is a very androgynous woman, her husband fancies the pants off her, he'd describe himself as a straight man. Likewise my first serious relationship way back was with a man who rejected the male gender stereotype, wore dresses to college etc. He wasn't transgender, I'm not pansexual, we were/are both heterosexuals who don't believe in gender stereotypes and like/love/fancy people because of who they are, just like gay or bi people can find both masculine or feminine women/men attractive. I just don't understand the need for such labels or public declarations of sexuality.

It is bisexuality with a fancy name to make them fee special. Sex is based on sexual attraction to the reproductive sexes, of which there are two. You are either homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual.

Pansexual means "attracted to all GENDERS". Completely tries to do away with the idea of sexual attraction. It's all about being attracted to how people feel inside.

If you fancied David Bowie back in his 'gender non conforming' days, does that make you 'pansexual'?

You've had sex with men and women- that means that you're bisexual, even if you only have sex with men or women for the rest of your life. You can't identify out of being bisexual, surely?

Well you could say I used to be bisexual but now I am hetero/homosexual, that would be a valid viewpoint, imo.

Bisexuality doesn’t explicitly recognise genders other than male or female

Bisexuality doesn't recognise SEXES other than male and female. The clue is right there in the name, its not Bi-GENDER-ality, is it?. No, its SEX, because it is talking about SEXES.

Why are people so fucking woke about everything yet still so completely unable to understand that the words gender and sex are not interchangeable and have actual meanings?

Well you could say I used to be bisexual but now I am hetero/homosexual, that would be a valid viewpoint, imo.

True. I think Graham Norton has said he slept with women before realising he was gay, I don't think people would describe him as bi.

I think I have two problems with "identify as". Firstly, I belong to a generation where some people used to "dabble" with homosexuality, while maintaining a strictly straight persona -to the extent of being actively homophobic in their daily lives. I want people to be "out and proud"- which I know is old fashioned of me!
And, probably more seriously, women can't identify out of disadvantage, or being victims of sex based violence, or FGM, or the pay gap......

argumentativefeminist the prefix pan- does mean all. It derives from the Greek word παν - literally 'all'.

Whether it's ridiculous or not, that is what the word means. Claiming it means something different is fine, but many people won't get the memo, probably won't ask and may assume things that you don't like.

Hi @BertrandRussell

I was about to make an in joke about finding a Wok under your seat at a conference, but then I read this "huge rich history of people being non-binary and non-gender conformist" and it got serious. Do you mean by this a "huge rich history of people being lesbian, gay and straight but refusing to adhere to gender stereotypes"? If you do- why not say so? And if you don't, what so you mean?

I was talking about gender identity, so I meant the terms I said.

By non-binary, I mean identify as a gender other than man or woman. I'm still learning myself but I understand it to be different to sexuality, whilst at the same time can't really be easily separated. Yeah, complicated and not too helpful perhaps, I know. See list www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/a-nearly-complete-glossary-of-gender-identities-for-your-next-ce/

and in terms of known references in history, one of the earliest would be Greek god Aphroditus beyondthebinary.co.uk/non-binary-legends-aphroditus/

By non-gender conforming, I mean behave in a way other than one might expect is inconsistent with their gender (and/or sex). So a "Butch" woman, a man who chooses to wear make-up, or a person who chooses to do things (and I'm avoiding sexuality again here as much as possible) traditionally associated with another gender. Boudicca leading her tribe after her husband was killed, when the norm was for tribe leaders to be male, would be an example.

transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-non-binary-people-how-to-be-respectful-and-supportive

As I say, I'm learning, so you might find I might not have it all ironed out in my head and on this page, and I'm finding these conversations fascinating, if at times a little daunting and sometimes more than a little confusing. I'm not quite sure why my comment was the point that it git serious, but do feel free to return to your wok

So... anything and everything, then? Whatever’s on offer.
Anyone’s for a bag of crisps?
Being a right old slapper isn’t a particularly new phenomenon...

By non-gender conforming, I mean behave in a way other than one might expect is inconsistent with their gender (and/or sex). So a "Butch" woman, a man who chooses to wear make-up, or a person who chooses to do things (and I'm avoiding sexuality again here as much as possible) traditionally associated with another gender. Boudicca leading her tribe after her husband was killed, when the norm was for tribe leaders to be male, would be an example.

I find this really insulting. Gender non conforming is MOST PEOPLE. The idea that any of us is conforming to whatever your particulafr view of what out gender is ridiculous and offensive.

Yes, 'pansexual' does make it sound like you will just ride anyone and anything!

Queer just means not easily categorised sexuality or gender - so the gender-fluids, sexuality which doesn't fit into one of the sections etc

Ok you're a troll then? Gr8

It's a sexual attraction to woks, saucepans and frying pans. Some people are picky about the type of pan - Teflon, cast-iron, aluminium, stainless steel, chip-pan etc. Others are promiscuous and will grab any old pot, with or without a handle

I’ve had such a shitty week and that’s just made me laugh!

@SporadicSpartacus: "Saying ‘I identify as bi’ seems pretty harmless, but if you’re like the woman in my example upthread and are only having sex with one sex of human, you are not bi."

I've only had sex with a man, just the way life worked out. I still call myself bi because I find women sexually attractive. If I'd met a bi or lesbian woman and had a relationship with her before I met DH would that have made me lesbian even though I still fancied men?

I am bisexual. I find men and women sexually attractive. Who I'm having sex with doesn't change that.

True. I think Graham Norton has said he slept with women before realising he was gay,

But is your sexuality defined by attraction or who you sleep with? Heterosexuals, homosexuals and bisexuals can have sex with whatever sex they want, it doesn’t mean they like it or are attracted to them. If Graham Norton fancied women that he slept with then I’d think bi but if he did it because he thought it was what is right (which I suspect was the case) then I wouldn’t

So... anything and everything, then? Whatever’s on offer.

Yes, 'pansexual' does make it sound like you will just ride anyone and anything!

REALLY? Does being a heterosexual woman mean that every man is an option?

Pansexual mean that gender is not a factor.

If someone said 'hair colour doesn't matter' would you think the same? There's a lot GFs in here.

I find this really insulting. Gender non conforming is MOST PEOPLE. The idea that any of us is conforming to whatever your particulafr view of what out gender is ridiculous and offensive.

^ This x 1000

Anyway, I'm off to make a delicious breakfast with the free non-stick tin wok I found under my seat...