Pansexual? AIBU to not understand how this isn't different to Bi?

[GoatWoman]

I really don't understand this new phenomena and I feel completely ignorant.
In my day (80's - 90's), if not having a sexual preference you termed yourself bisexual. Not that anybody has to classify themselves at all.

But recently I hear more of pan-sexual. What on earth does it mean? The only explanation I've heard is that they choose the mind over biology. Isn't that what everyone does?

Two sexes, two genders, if you’re attracted to both it’s bisexuality IMO but you’re right, I shouldn’t be so blithely rude about something I think is nonsense so I’ll drop it.

Two sexes does not equal two genders. It's ok not to know much about a subject, but it's rude to call it nonsense when it's many people's lived experiences.

There are historical accounts of many cultures which talk about a third gender, and a huge rich history of people being non-binary and non-gender conformist, whether they had the same labels we do now or not.

There are as many genders as there are people but only two sexes. It’s just youth speak for inclusive of anyone isn’t it? We old gimmers would have understood it as bisexuality but the young like to complicate matters, a generational confusion, if you like.

I've tried to understand but to be honest, pansexual just seems to mean 'would shag literally anyone or anything'

Why do I need to have a special respect for that if I'm not homophobic?

Fucking ridiculous, attention seeking, bullshit of the highest order.

I was about to make an in joke about finding a Wok under your seat at a conference, but then I read this "huge rich history of people being non-binary and non-gender conformist" and it got serious. Do you mean by this a "huge rich history of people being lesbian, gay and straight but refusing to adhere to gender stereotypes"? If you do- why not say so? And if you don't, what so you mean?

I’ve yet to find a definition of pansexual that isn’t slightly sneery towards bi/monosexual people, ie ‘we are so enlightened we have transcended this base preoccupation with genitalia, hearts not parts!

SporadicSpartacus
I agree.
It seems to be a cute term for provoking woke-ness.
What I don't get is it's prominence in a community who will claim trans men are men and trans women are women regardles of if/how far they physically transition. Surely, if those statements are correct, then there's still just men/women and bisexuality covers it.

I don't identify as being a woman. I am an adult human female who subscribes to some stereotypical female traits and is nowhere close on others. I'm still a woman though. It's not like I'm 'agender' or some other term to identify myself out of my sex.

There seems to be quite a bit of cognitive dissonance making all these new terms fit together.

(Obviously, people are free to sleep with who they like regardless of how they may identify themselves. 2 people like each other and want to sleep with each other, cool. It doesn't need a special label)

‘Bi’ Is no longer cool. Pansexual means you’re sexual attracted to any human regardless of sex or gender I.d. - men, women, trans, people who want to be called ‘they’.
I do think it’s an attention seeking term, but maybe that’s because the only ‘pans’ I have met - including a ‘ pan poly’ have been annoying, self centred, me me me LOOK at me types.
Queer is another thing altogether and if you are straight I wouldn’t use the term queer at all. It’s been reclaimed by the LGBT community, some people prefer it to lesbian, gay, bi etc. BUT outside of the LGBT community it’s still mostly used as an insult so I’d stay clear of using it. It’s a bit like ‘dyke’ some gay women use it and find it empowering but it’s not one for the heties to be throwing around unless in a direct quote from someone...

I identify as bi rather than pan partly because I've gone through phases of only being attracted to men so I don't think that I honestly say that sex/gender doesn't matter, but mostly because the pan flag is hideous and I am not prepared to deck myself out in fuchsia and canary yellow at Pride.

The other thing about this festival of wokeness and a hundred and one sexualities (some of which seem designed only to serve the purpose of giving subsets of "boring, mundane heterosexuals" - in which I include myself -a label so they can feel special), is that there is one label that is now missing.

Lesbian has been co-opted to include having penis-in-vagina sex so long as one partner identifies as trans. There is now no word for a person born with a vulva who only likes having sex with other people born with vulvas. Such people are now dismissed as "vagina fetishists", and interestingly in a world where fetish is now celebrated and the mantra "your kink is not my kink and that's okay" has become almost an article of faith, being a vagina fetishist is the one kink which is apparently not okay, it is in the words of Riley Dennis, "trans-exclusionary."

Truly the love which not merely dare not speak its name, but the love which is no longer allowed even to have a name.

Why do you "identify" as bi rather than "be " bi?

I'm straight. My best friend (I know, I know!) is a lesbian. My vet is gay. My colleague's child is a transman (well, only just-he's 17 so I still think of him as a transboy) Why do any of these people need to "identify" as anything?

"Truly the love which not merely dare not speak its name, but the love which is no longer allowed even to have a name"

This. 100x this.

Because ‘identifying’ is much more interesting than simply being. 🙄

I always read it as will shag animals or inanimate objects in a bind.

Bertrand I mostly use "identify" instead of "am bisexual" because the term I felt most comfortable with has changed for me before, and it may well change again. It's personal choice really, but to me using "identify as" gives me more flexibility to change my mind. I'm not saying this is true of everyone, and certainly not of trans folk who identify with a gender, before anyone piles in on that.

Oh for goodness sakes I guess I’ll just have to throw my hands up and accept I don’t understand! But if you fluctuate towards men and women depending on your mood or your change in mind then you’re bisexual! But I won’t label you, that’s your choice, it’s just what I think.

maisypops
“What I don't get is it's prominence in a community who will claim trans men are men and trans women are women regardles of if/how far they physically transition. Surely, if those statements are correct, then there's still just men/women and bisexuality covers it.”

Agree.

There was a pp upthread who mentioned ‘pan’ people might be more okay with a bedroom revelation, ie they are about to sleep with someone who hasn’t disclosed their bio sex and passes as the opposite sex. They are so relaxed about the physicality of it that they wouldn’t be phased by surprise penis on a new gf when they thought they were going to be performing cunnilingus.

Personally, I’d have a massive problem with that situation - not because I’m penis averse, more because it’s an act of deception. It’s an attempt to have sex with someone without their fully informed consent. I’m clearly one of the less enlightened bis.

broomstick
“I am not prepared to deck myself out in fuchsia and canary yellow at Pride.”

Haha! Very good point. I’ve gone right off the bi flag since I read about the significance of the colours on it.

Whenever I hear 'pansexual' I can't help but think of 'My Dad Wrote a Porno'!

Oh god I feel old....

The fundamental issue here is this. Some people think sexuality is based on what sex someone is. That's fine. For them, there's only ever going to be homosexuality and bisexuality, but not necessarily any problem including trans people in the definitions of those sexualities, which is good!

But, there's also people who think of sexuality in terms of gender. And then, even though you could have trans-inclusive homosexual and bisexual people as in situation above, there's other genders too like agender and nonbinary. Which aren't necessarily covered by "attracted to the same gender as me" or "attracted to my gender and another gender". So some people, who see sexuality as a gender based issue rather than a "sex" issue, will want other terms such as pan to embrace these gender neutral people.

Some people will never be able to agree that the opposing view to theirs is valid, and so the discussion always degenerates into getting bogged down about which of the two approaches is best. It's personal and political preference, really.

"but to me using "identify as" gives me more flexibility to change my mind. "

But surely being bi gives you all the flexibility you need? Sorry- I have no right, obviously, to question you about this, so please ignore me.But what would you change your mind to? You've had sex with men and women- that means that you're bisexual, even if you only have sex with men or women for the rest of your life. You can't identify out of being bisexual, surely?

If it’s nothing to do with sex
Then why use pan sexual
Just make panpeople

@BertrandRussell (as above)... There in lies my confusion! 2 sexes, one, t'other, or both.

Never mind Pan's People, am still mildly worried about Peter and Wendy....

Bertrand Its okay to ask, and I'll engage for as long as I feel able! 😊 For me, I used to say I was pansexual, because as per my post just before yours, I see sexuality as a gender thing rather than a "what sex you are thing". I was conscious of ensuring that the word I used to describe my sexuality encompassed agender and nonbinary people. But now, mostly for ease of understanding, I use bisexual. I still feel exactly the same about the same types of people, it's just easier to explain bisexual, and I take it as given that any hot nonbinary people I meet will realise that I'm attracted to them regardless of what words I'm using. It's not the identity or who I'm attracted to that ever changed, just the word that described it. So "identify as" gives me more scope to change the describing word, is what I meant, rather than it gives me scope to wipe clean my sexual attractions and pick something new.

I agree that 'pansexual' is a term for 'I am considerably more enlightened than yaaaaaw, I am inclusive of everyone'. And we all know that being 'inclusive' is the only true path to Nirvana these days.