Not to leave my kids under these circumstances...

[CantankerousCamel]

2 years ago we visited my brother in the spring, he lives a 4 hour drive away from me and I was around 7 months pregnant

Things were a bit odd while we were there, I’ll try and give a run down

1. He had a long, drawn out and pointless ‘debate’ with me about my NC status with our father, I explained that Father had raised his fist to me and shouted at me for the last time and Brothers defence of this was ‘well he never actually hit us so that’s okay’ I explained that when men shout at me I think they’re going to hit me and he said ‘you can’t say that, you can say you think they might hit you but you’re bringing it upon yourself because you are expecting it’

There was another conversation about sexual harassment at work where he basically said if the woman has given a firm no to being harassed then she should be disciplined for involving management as its embarrassing for the Male.

Anyway.

He has two dogs, one is a large pointer who doesn’t like children, so much that the dog growled at the children when they walked into rooms and snapped at both the boys (then 4 and 6)

When she snapped at Ds2 (4) we were all sitting on a couch, DB was nearest the door and the dog, DH, DS1 and I were further away on a different couch.

Ds2 looked really shocked when the dog snapped at him and looked at me. DB said (remember that Ds2 is 4 years old) that if he (Ds2) didn’t like the dog, he could just leave and pointed to the front door. So Ds2 is in a strange house, has just had a dog snap st him while he walks past it and now has his uncle shouting and screaming at him.

At this point I stood up, pulled Ds2 towards Me and held him, he was literally shaking.

DB told me I was ‘pandering to him’ and ‘this is just what he wants, attention’ And when I told him to stop he started shouting ‘what do you want me to do Ds2? Have the dog put down? Is that what you want? You want the dog dead? So I basically told him to leave us alone repeatedly until he left the room.

He came back in and again started shouting at us but again (whilst cradling ds2) I just told him repeatedly to leave us alone.

He did apologise an hour later, but as you can imagine, Ds2 has compartmentalised all the fear and shame he felt, into a fear of that particular dog.

Now my brother is going away for 2 weeks in the summer and my mum who lives abroad has arranged to spend 2 weeks at his house with me and the kids.

I did tell her that you wasn’t sure Ds2 would be okay with that but I would ask.

He is still absolutely not okay with it and so I said to mum that I would drive our caravan up there, stay for a long weekend, then drive back with the boys (I have to work) and come up for another long weekend. Apparently this isn’t good enough and she refuses to be there if we aren’t there for the entire two weeks then she will be on her own and that’s not good enough.

Then she said she would have the boys herself and I could come and work and the boys would have to get used to the dog.

AIBU to not send them? They would be really scared and it just doesn’t feel right to me.

I feel I’ve done my best in saying I’ll take the caravan and we will stay for half the time, especially considering all the driving but nothing seems good enough and she (and my brother) are now angry with me

So no, he isn’t willing to change or to listen to change. People should just know he is not going to flip and be violent.

So your husband has also tried to manipulate you and the children into a potentially dangerous contact situation with your violent father to prove a point about men’s rights ? Or have I misunderstood?

Meeting my dad at a soft play wirh the children is not endangering them. Nor did he say I had to be involved OR at any point didn’t give me complete veto rights.

Dad is an absolute and complete arsehole who has raised my brother (make of him what you will) a psychopath who used to go to extreme and calculated lengths to torture and destroy me and me.

But he is not a danger in supervised contact with our children.

My husband is not manipulative or cruel in any way. He is my only real family.

I won’t have this already shit situation turned into an excuse to attack me for not wanting to remove myself from every single person in my life, including my supportive husband

I can see it from both sides - if you are a pet owner you tend to see them with rose tinted glasses, that said kids do get used to dogs quickly - as I've obviously not met this dog I don't know it's personality but I always thought mine didn't like kids because he avoided them in the park and on the occasions one visited he would make himself scarce but had been known to growl if they persued him around the house BUT once we had a baby nephew he was fine with him, even shares his disgusting ball and most recently, brought a previously buried dried chicken foot for him - he definitely adopted him as one of our tribe! Families are complicated, your mum desperately wants to spend time with your kids - if the dog danger situation could be resolved, is there other reasons not to let them stay? I hope you can come up with a solution. (My parents sit my dog by the way, it is normal for those here saying it's not)

Unfortunately the dog has been around my sons for enough time for us to know this dog is not safe around children. It scratched my older son near his eye, snapped at my younger son and growled whenever the children came in the room. The baby adores dogs, or ‘awoh awoh’ as she calls them, obviously we don’t give her unfettered access to dogs but it’s hard to take kids from a relaxed living environment with a friendly dog, to a situation where they are around an unfriendly dog for any period of time. It’s like just be totally unrelaxing for my husband and I. Plus I can’t really leave the boys there with my mum alone as there is no way she would continuously supervise them. Not to mention the fact they are terrified of that dog. Not just because of the dogs behaviour but because they associate it with all the nastiness and abuse and shouting that happened while we were last there.

I can see B’s side too, it is his house and that is his dog, if people are going to be in his house, they have to accept the dog will be there too.

I, however, don’t have to be in his house, so I won’t

YANBU.
Stay at home, avoid the aggro, leave them all to it.

"He continued to state that it was my fault for having the fear rather than men’s fault for being scary and got really, really quite animated and upset."

Your brother sounds pretty horrible. And to be honest it is not your brother's business why you feel afraid of your father.

"He’s a strange man, I don’t see him very much" I'd avoid him altogether if I were you.

I won’t have this already shit situation turned into an excuse to attack me for not wanting to remove myself from every single person in my life,

No one is attacking you, but I for one am bewildered by your lack of action in protecting your children. I understand that your upbringing was abusive but why don't you want help so that you can disengage?

Violent people don't deserve a relationship with your children.

How am I not protecting my children?!