Not to leave my kids under these circumstances...

[CantankerousCamel]

2 years ago we visited my brother in the spring, he lives a 4 hour drive away from me and I was around 7 months pregnant

Things were a bit odd while we were there, I’ll try and give a run down

1. He had a long, drawn out and pointless ‘debate’ with me about my NC status with our father, I explained that Father had raised his fist to me and shouted at me for the last time and Brothers defence of this was ‘well he never actually hit us so that’s okay’ I explained that when men shout at me I think they’re going to hit me and he said ‘you can’t say that, you can say you think they might hit you but you’re bringing it upon yourself because you are expecting it’

There was another conversation about sexual harassment at work where he basically said if the woman has given a firm no to being harassed then she should be disciplined for involving management as its embarrassing for the Male.

Anyway.

He has two dogs, one is a large pointer who doesn’t like children, so much that the dog growled at the children when they walked into rooms and snapped at both the boys (then 4 and 6)

When she snapped at Ds2 (4) we were all sitting on a couch, DB was nearest the door and the dog, DH, DS1 and I were further away on a different couch.

Ds2 looked really shocked when the dog snapped at him and looked at me. DB said (remember that Ds2 is 4 years old) that if he (Ds2) didn’t like the dog, he could just leave and pointed to the front door. So Ds2 is in a strange house, has just had a dog snap st him while he walks past it and now has his uncle shouting and screaming at him.

At this point I stood up, pulled Ds2 towards Me and held him, he was literally shaking.

DB told me I was ‘pandering to him’ and ‘this is just what he wants, attention’ And when I told him to stop he started shouting ‘what do you want me to do Ds2? Have the dog put down? Is that what you want? You want the dog dead? So I basically told him to leave us alone repeatedly until he left the room.

He came back in and again started shouting at us but again (whilst cradling ds2) I just told him repeatedly to leave us alone.

He did apologise an hour later, but as you can imagine, Ds2 has compartmentalised all the fear and shame he felt, into a fear of that particular dog.

Now my brother is going away for 2 weeks in the summer and my mum who lives abroad has arranged to spend 2 weeks at his house with me and the kids.

I did tell her that you wasn’t sure Ds2 would be okay with that but I would ask.

He is still absolutely not okay with it and so I said to mum that I would drive our caravan up there, stay for a long weekend, then drive back with the boys (I have to work) and come up for another long weekend. Apparently this isn’t good enough and she refuses to be there if we aren’t there for the entire two weeks then she will be on her own and that’s not good enough.

Then she said she would have the boys herself and I could come and work and the boys would have to get used to the dog.

AIBU to not send them? They would be really scared and it just doesn’t feel right to me.

I feel I’ve done my best in saying I’ll take the caravan and we will stay for half the time, especially considering all the driving but nothing seems good enough and she (and my brother) are now angry with me

They all sound ghastly and I don't think you needed to apologise to your DB. You have offered an arrangement to visit (ie with caravan) and if that doesn't satisfy your DM I would say fine, then we won't be going to DB's house at all.

Stop pandering to them; I would have gone NC way before now but it's never too late.

Don't tie yourself up in knots about it and don't forget the MNHQ mantra: NO IS A COMPLETE SENTENCE.

Good luck!

Yanbu at all. Neither the children or (if you want to appeal to your brothers skewed priorities) the dog will be happy.

Stop trying to convince them though, you won’t and will just get into a tangle of words whilst they attempt to browbeat you into submission to what they want. It much easier to just say no and stick to it.

I wouldn’t be able to help myself in pointing out that his dog may be forcibly put down if it bites a child but I somehow doubt he’s the kind of person who would consider that advice....

Id go NC with the lot.

1. I wouldn't take my DC back to that house - ever.
2. Your 'D'B is a massive arse and I think I'd go NC with him too, as he's clearly a chip off your Dad's block.
3. Invite your DM to stay with you, if she's so keen to spend 2 weeks with you all. What your entitled, arsey DB does with his nasty dogs is up to him, but I wouldn't get involved.

You owe your brother nothing. You owe your kids a safe environment.

Don't leave them, either with your brother or with anyone who thinks his behaviour is normal.

Your boundaries are normal.

Id go NC with the lot.

Same. Your brother sounds horrible and I would never be taking my kids to visit him again after the way he acted.

He kept saying ‘she’s going to be here whether you like it or not, it’s up to you if you visit’

Great, so it's not your problem. Your decision is not to visit because of the dog. You brother and mum can sort out the rest between them.

I wouldnt go either. Just tell them sorry you can’t make it. They sound toxic.
Never ever allow that dog near your dc again. All the warning signs are there with the dog op. And your db behaviour is beyond awful

By snapping and growling, the dog is giving fair warning that it is uncomfortable around children and should not be around them. Ignore this, and your son will get bitten.

Only you can decide how best to keep your dcs safe. Your mother clearly likes to manipulate you into being the unreasonable one. Afterall why else would she make plans to dog sit then only do it on the proviso that you stay over with your dcs without discussing it with you first. Instantaneously that puts you in a loose loose situation for you have to decide between letting your children down or receiving more bile and nastiness from your toxic family.

My family does this to me and I see so many parallels including the dog situation, where the dog actually bit my dd when she was very young. There has been complete denial about the dog being dangerous to my child and my brother being a physical threat to me and dd being scared of particularly the latter.

Stop playing to their tune. Offer what you choose to offer and if it isn’t good, tough. The children don’t get to see grandma. They’re not going to be beside themselves with grief if they don’t. But they will remember forever more if you don’t keep them safe.

Even if you do exactly what you are told, you know it will never be good enough. It never is because as soon as you get it right, these people have to ensure you get it wrong.

Gosh I wouldn’t even consider going. Even if you stay in the caravan what happens when you go to see your mum and the children have to see the dogs again? You have to think of them first as they are now scared of the dogs. Why put them in that situation ? Your brother is making you feel guilty and manipulating you to get what he wants. Also your mother should be standing up for yiu

My DD is scared of dogs without having had any real nasty experience with one and I'd not be inclined to force her into spending 2 weeks in a house with one. There's no way in hell I'd be going in your shoes.

Anyway, let your DM and Bro sort it between them. Not your circus, not your monkeys.

You are getting mixed up in something that really is not your problem. If your mother isn't going to dogsit, that is for her to say. You do not have to facilitate this or apologise for her.

Why didn't you leave when your brother kicked off about his dog?

The house sitting arrangements are not your problem. Don't send them to his house. It would be very cruel.

It's a no from me. YANBU

Let DM and DB sort it out. Keep your boys away from the dogs and make it clear you will not be staying in the house with them therre.

yanbu

Your mum and brother have made arrangements.
It’s not your problem if she’s changed her mind, don’t get involved

I have not read all the comments but I think you are completely crazy to have anything at all to do with your brother, or his dog or his house.

I'd tell your mum she can do as she pleases, look after the dogs/house or not, as she likes.

I'd stay in my own home, dog free, with my kids and anyone wanting to visit me, without dogs, and without the fucking appalling attitude your brother displayed.

"I do want to see my mum but she has made all these arrangements despite me telling her in great detail about what happened with the boys, DS1 has just reminded me that the dog also scratched his eye. It’s just not an appropriate dog to have around young children."

Then don't put your kids anywhere near these dogs.

"I messaged my brother to apologise as DM had said that she wouldn’t be house sitting for him if we weren’t there and he jusd didn’t get it. He kept saying ‘she’s going to be here whether you like it or not, it’s up to you if you visit’ " Why are you even getting involved? Tell him nothing, it's nothing to do with you.

Let your brother sort his own dogs. I don't blame your mum not wanting to go but it has nothing to do with you.

OK, read a few more comments and 100% agree with MyCatIsBonkers

"Your brother is vile. Your mother is manipulative. The dog is a danger to your children.

I wouldn't be within a million miles of any if them and neither would my children."

"I honestly thought he would have said the dog could go elsewhere..." Of course the dog can go elsewhere, there are kennels were dogs go for holidays.

Did anyone, your Mum, ask you if you were up for this arrangement? If she did and you originally said yes just tell her (not your brother) that you've changed your mind and won't be going. If she didn't ask you it's even easier, just say you weren't asked and won't be going.
Don't even contemplate some arrangement in a caravan trying to have a nice time. That won't happen.
Time to start standing up for yourself and your family,

Agree with what others have said. It's not your responsibility to sort your brother's house sitting arrangements. Leave them to it. Leave yourself out of it, and put your children first.

Ywbu when you didn't leave as soon as the dog snapped and 'd' b shouted!
Like father like son.

Going nc would be a really good idea.

The dog has growled and snapped at children. It is warning that it is very uncomfortable around children. It will do so again, and next time someone may be injured. Please do not have your children in the same house, it would not be fair on the dc or the dog. What your brother does for house sitting is none of your business.

'AIBU to refuse to allow my children to be put into danger of being bitten?'
'AIBU to refuse to get involved in housesitting arrangements between my brother and my mother?'
'AIBU to refuse to maintain contact with a brother who disregards my feelings, my children's feelings, my mother's feelings....'

Walk away from it all.

You brother sounds like a dick. At the end of the day, your brother asked your mum to house sit. Although she wants you and the children to stay...it has nothing to do with you, really. Invite your mum over for a long weekend. Suggest to your mum that the dogs could go into kennels. I would trust your gut feeling to not stay at your brother's again. Your job is to protect them and make them feel safe. If the dog's did ever bite your children then I can imagine your brother siding with the dogs! If your brother & mum keep asking..then just ignore them.