Not to leave my kids under these circumstances...

[CantankerousCamel]

2 years ago we visited my brother in the spring, he lives a 4 hour drive away from me and I was around 7 months pregnant

Things were a bit odd while we were there, I’ll try and give a run down

1. He had a long, drawn out and pointless ‘debate’ with me about my NC status with our father, I explained that Father had raised his fist to me and shouted at me for the last time and Brothers defence of this was ‘well he never actually hit us so that’s okay’ I explained that when men shout at me I think they’re going to hit me and he said ‘you can’t say that, you can say you think they might hit you but you’re bringing it upon yourself because you are expecting it’

There was another conversation about sexual harassment at work where he basically said if the woman has given a firm no to being harassed then she should be disciplined for involving management as its embarrassing for the Male.

Anyway.

He has two dogs, one is a large pointer who doesn’t like children, so much that the dog growled at the children when they walked into rooms and snapped at both the boys (then 4 and 6)

When she snapped at Ds2 (4) we were all sitting on a couch, DB was nearest the door and the dog, DH, DS1 and I were further away on a different couch.

Ds2 looked really shocked when the dog snapped at him and looked at me. DB said (remember that Ds2 is 4 years old) that if he (Ds2) didn’t like the dog, he could just leave and pointed to the front door. So Ds2 is in a strange house, has just had a dog snap st him while he walks past it and now has his uncle shouting and screaming at him.

At this point I stood up, pulled Ds2 towards Me and held him, he was literally shaking.

DB told me I was ‘pandering to him’ and ‘this is just what he wants, attention’ And when I told him to stop he started shouting ‘what do you want me to do Ds2? Have the dog put down? Is that what you want? You want the dog dead? So I basically told him to leave us alone repeatedly until he left the room.

He came back in and again started shouting at us but again (whilst cradling ds2) I just told him repeatedly to leave us alone.

He did apologise an hour later, but as you can imagine, Ds2 has compartmentalised all the fear and shame he felt, into a fear of that particular dog.

Now my brother is going away for 2 weeks in the summer and my mum who lives abroad has arranged to spend 2 weeks at his house with me and the kids.

I did tell her that you wasn’t sure Ds2 would be okay with that but I would ask.

He is still absolutely not okay with it and so I said to mum that I would drive our caravan up there, stay for a long weekend, then drive back with the boys (I have to work) and come up for another long weekend. Apparently this isn’t good enough and she refuses to be there if we aren’t there for the entire two weeks then she will be on her own and that’s not good enough.

Then she said she would have the boys herself and I could come and work and the boys would have to get used to the dog.

AIBU to not send them? They would be really scared and it just doesn’t feel right to me.

I feel I’ve done my best in saying I’ll take the caravan and we will stay for half the time, especially considering all the driving but nothing seems good enough and she (and my brother) are now angry with me

They both sound horrible and entirely disregard your feelings and wishes. Not to mention the lack of care for your DC. I can’t see anything positive about continuing to see this vile pair.

Nope. Your kids come first and the dogs sound dangerous. He's a cock and always will be.

Why is your mum assumming 2 weeks of your leave- as thats whats she doing .....
her arrangement with your brther is nothing to do with you....
please carry on protecting your children
if you are happy to go for a weekend then thats what you do.

she can complain all she likes but its her fuck up - you have managed to keep her out of your house ...what she does/dpes not do with her time is up to her...
in some respect your brother has it right she has committed to him - you haven't s he doesn't feel he has to compromise with you...

please keep your boundaries up and carry on protecting your children....your mum is an adult she can sort herself out -

Cut them all off.

Life can be hard sometimes, you need people on your side.

Mum got really annoyed about the leave. She just assumed that we would be taking our family holiday to coincide with her spending time at my brothers house, so she would get me/DH for a week, then the DS’s for four days Alone and then another weekend with me.

Actually we are taking 10 days to drive to Scotland in the spring and that’s our main holiday this year.

I am self employed so I could take another week/ 2 weeks off in July but it would be awful for business.

Shes booked to come down in February too and got really aggressive when she found out the kids are off school the week before she’s planned to spend any time with them. Apparently I should have let her know that they have holiday then. I just told her I don’t choose their half terms and it is what it is.

It would be nice if she started asking questions before she went ahead and booked everything. She’s planning on taking my 90 year old grandmother from Brighton to Liverpool for a visit and I did try and explain that would be far easier when the kids are all back st school but she turns it around and acts like I’m just being selfish.

She hates that I have to work while she’s here. She hates that when I finish work (I have a really physical job) I actually sit down for a bit.

I’m hoping that one of my clients will let her house sit for her locally a couple of weeks of the summer, that way she can have some time near us but we don’t have to be too under each other’s feet.

Well done on the boundaries you have set with your Dad and now your brother. Your mother will have to sort herself out, about what she does this holiday and about where she arranges to stay when she wants to meet up with you. If she is generous and loving, that’s what a grandparent/parent should be, but don’t let that emotionally control you in terms of contact or boundaries.

They’re all totally fucking batshit. Your brother is obvs just like your dad and your mum is a selfish cow who is willing to put her GC at risk for her wants. Cut the lot of them off.

well she should not assume ...and I wuld cut her off everytime she gets aggressive you don't have to have anyone aggressive with you..
.
Calmly tell her to call back when shes calmed down (my MIL gets aggressive and it has finally kicking in since DH started doing this ) taken him years but it really works..
look at grey rock technique as well

are you sure you want in her in a clients house? I would be worried she would sabotage/get aggressive about that esp as 'you've chosen it there will be stuff wrong it etc etc please let her sort herself out -

"I’m hoping that one of my clients will let her house sit for her locally a couple of weeks of the summer, that way she can have some time near us but we don’t have to be too under each other’s feet."

Do you actually want to see her?

She sounds awful.

Please get some counselling and/or assertiveness training andvststt practising saying 'No' ' Not possible' and ' Not available'.

Good luck.

start practicng....

How do you react when she comes up with these plans which don't work for you?

Do you get flustered and apologetic? If so, don't! Practise saying 'oh what a shame, we can't do that week' then change the subject. If she tries to draw you back in, say 'so what will you do then?'

Don't engage, don't buy into the problem she has. It's her problem, she made it, she needs to decide what to do about it.

I'd make a montage of headlines about kids being attacked by dogs in family homes. Send it to your mum with "this is why my kids will never stay with those dogs"

Yes I do want to continue seeing my mother twice a year.

When she makes plans on my behalf I either say they will work for us or they won’t. This ‘won’t’ seemed to upset a lot of people because the children are ‘only’ children and how can their feelings override what the adults want to do. I parent differently to that so I’m not going to put them in that position.

She’s not going to sabotage my clients house, she will be in a 6.1 million pound house in a gorgeous valley and will absolutely LOVE it. If it works out, she can stay locally but not in our home, for free, for 2 weeks of the year every year.

Jeez OP I’d have gone NC with the lot of them a long time ago- you’re far more forgiving than me!

I wouldn't tell them what your kids' feelings are. They don't seem to care. It's a decision you are making about not allowing your DC near a dangerous dog.

You know what’s right op

Do not let your mum and brother overide your children’s feelings.

If you mum refuses to stay at your brothers because you won’t stay there that is their problem, not yours.

People can’t make plans that include you without actually checking with you if this is ok and then her arsey when you say no.

I’m hoping that one of my clients will let her house sit for her locally a couple of weeks of the summer, that way she can have some time near us but we don’t have to be too under each other’s feet. - Please don't facilitate this. It will only become another stick to beat you with. It'll be to cold, or hot, or too close or too far, or ... let her make her own arrangements. Step back.

Seriously, OP, you are far too accommodating! Her arrangements are nothing to do with you. Her arrangements with your brother are none of your affair. By trying to 'rescue' and 'help', you are putting yourself in the way of further abuse. BTW - why aren't you NC with your brother? He was abusive to you as a child, he is dismissive of danger to your children, and he sounds abusive to you now.

Personally, I'd go NC with the lot of them. Let them get on with their toxic lives. Why would you want your children around it, let alone you? It doesn't have to be forever, you know. Just long enough to re-draw your boundaries, and let everyone know were they are. (Of course, once you are NC, you may find your MH improves greatly. Jut sayin'.)

My mum lives in Australia

My brother lives 4 hours away

I don’t see either of these people often.

I don’t see my father as he is violent

I don’t see my other brother because he is violent.

That is my boundary and it’s tsken me a lot of assertion to get it.

whilst your brother with the dogs might not have been violent to you he certainly doesn’t behave like a caring family member. I’d be thinking of going NC with him too. He cares more about his dog than you and your children.

i am shocked youre even considering this (only read first page)

bran I haven’t considered it, I had just been told I was being unreasonable by my family and wanted some logical people to remind me I was

Yanbu. Hope that helps and good luck

Oh my goodness OP you poor thing.

Other people have had great suggestions for how to handle it, but I just wanted to say (and I say this as someone who normally goes out of my way to be nice to people, compromise etc) ...

You are absolutely not being unreasonable in any way (in fact you are probably being too reasonable).

They are all being massively unreasonable.

Hope that helps and good luck with it all.

Op I think you are amazing. You have made something of your life after a shitty start. Your family would drag you right back down with them if you let them. I understand that you are trying to create balance in your life and you want to continue seeing your family, but it must be on your terms. Your mother has no right to decide that you will drive 4 hours to spend time with her at her convenience. Aside from the fact that you have a career and a family of your own to consider, your DC are not safe around your DB's dogs, so don't do it. If your mother decides not to come so be it. She decided to move to the other side of the world not you, you don't have to bend over backwards to accommodate her visits. Going forward make sure she fits around your plans, tbh I think she is very lucky to see you or your DC at all.

she believes that as she’s come ‘all this way’ we need to be available for her when she requests it