Why do the TRAs hate mn?

[Sleepyslops]

Who are these people and why are they hating on us? Can't they cancel the cheque already?

Sleepyslops

I just feel sorry for Captain Birdseye. The Feminists said the TRAs don't like him anymore.

Could it be the beard?

Theknackeredchef anytime you need support feel free to message me.

I fail to see how a transgender person going to the toilet or getting changed in the next cubicle to you is an issue. I do understand there are exceptions to this such as places for vulnerable women and girls such as prisons and refuges and then there should be an alternative provided

By letting men into women's spaces, you are creating even more vulnerable women and girls. That's the point.

Do we really need more vulnerable women and girls, on top of the horrendous level of rape, murder, assaults, violence that we currently see?

By dropping all safeguards, and not allowing women and girls to say NO - you are effectively saying no man is a threat to any women or girl.

Which is patently not true.

Sorry @Skarossinkplungerridesagain, hopefully my query is clearer here:

You said:
"I understand there are exceptions to this such as places for vulnerable women and girls such as prisons and refuges and then there should be an alternative provided."

I am asking why you say that - on what basis do you make that comment that segregation is required at that point (prisons and refuges)?

...Because I think we ultimately agree there is a safeguarding/dignity/privacy risk to women from dangerous men and the only difference between you and I is where that line should be drawn to restrict their access to us.

But your position would still be considered utterly 100% transphobic because the only acceptable answer the TRAs will take is "unquestioning access, at all times, to all places" 0 including the prisons and refuges.

But I don't think you are transphobic, and I hope you can see that I am not transphobic just for having a different line in the sand about where we want penises in named women's spaces? So where does that leave us?

“Sorry shotsfired I don't understand, why is exactly what? I've already said that vulnerable women should be protected”

How?

And MEN (note: I did not say 'transwomen') who want to be in women's spaces are the very ones who should not be let in. How are we to tell the difference?

This is exactly the kind of thing we work through as a family, in order to keep my nephew mentally well. We remind him that not all people think like you, and to try and understand the points they are making and why they make them. In the end it's just words and we appreciate that not everyone agrees with the way we live our lives. As I said the issue is not black and white, people are allowed to disagree.

Personally I find that the TRA are anything but supportive of people who are genuinely suffering from gender dyphoria. My transman friend is debating whether or not he should have surgery in future. He's a very torn and troubled individual who has had a traumatic past and his feelings about his gender often swing wildly from one extreme to the other.

I find it disturbing that the realities and complications of surgery and hormone treatment are so lightly dismissed by TRA such as Mermaids. Also trans people are being told that they can literally change sex, even though that is clearly impossible. They will never truly become the other sex yet so often they're being promised more than can be delivered. How the hell is my friend or anyone considering surgery supposed to make an informed decision when they are being lied to in such a way?

“As I said the issue is not black and white, people are allowed to disagree“

The whole point is that we’re not. You have already said things which would get you labeled as transphobic.

Most trans people I have met don't want access to natal women only spaces they just want recognition and a space of their own and most women are comfortable with this

Please tell me where their campaigns are so that I can add my support to them.

Because you get people like @BaitandSwitch starting threads saying they are gay and don't like being "lumped together with the trans lot".

Why do some on MN hate TRA or MRA? Why do they have issues for anyone being an activist for anyone's rights? Do they think rights and fair treatment are a finite resource?

Why is there a sudden resurgence is these goady anti-trans posts? It was nice for a while. FWR ->>

Natal women? NATAL?

Betrand Well I've never cared much for labels, so I'm not bothered by that one.

I am a woman. The end.

once you accept that a penis can be female, you don't get to cherry-pick which ones you don't want in your face.

“Betrand Well I've never cared much for labels, so I'm not bothered by that one.”

Good. So where is the forum for the debate about this?

If White women were invading Black people's spaces, demanding to be heard over Black women, taking their scholarships, expecting to be accommodated at meetings to promote and defend the interests and rights of Black people, would people be so understanding? Would people demand that Black women move aside to let them in? Judging by the justified uproar over Rachel Dolezal and when black or Asian characters are whitewashed I suspect not.

So why is it ok for men to do it to women? To all women Black, Asian, White, Muslim, disabled, lesbian women etc? It's an issue that affects women of every colour and kind. We should just give up and rollover because men said so?

"Why do some on MN hate TRA or MRA? "

Uh-huh.

So TRA are in same category as TRA according to those who support TRA?

Interesting.

Good. So where is the forum for the debate about this?

No idea, but personally I don't feel the need for one. I find that forum debates end in insults and de-personalise the issue.

Maybe the debates are to be "facilitated" in the Gulag?

“No idea, but personally I don't feel the need for one. I find that forum debates end in insults and de-personalise the issue.”

So when you said that vulnerable women need to be protected, you don’t think that people should talk about how that might happen?

Just because you stick the word activist on the end of your cause doesn't mean that it's a worthy, justifiable or laudable cause. There are whites rights activists after all.

Do I support trans rights? Absolutely. No one should be denied a home, lose their job or be abused or assaulted because they are trans, but that isn't what TRAs are looking for. They don't just want their own pie. They want to take most of mine too and expect me be grateful for the few scraps they leave me with. And they want to invite everyone else along to steal my scraps if they feel like it, while ignoring their own table overflowing with food.

No Bertrand what I said was I don't feel the need for one.

i'm still waiting for a campaign to start accepting transboys into Eton