Why do the TRAs hate mn?

[Sleepyslops]

Who are these people and why are they hating on us? Can't they cancel the cheque already?

Anti trans ?

So having now realised that TERF can't reasonably be thrown at all the entirely sensible women and men who are openly querying this, TRAs have had to come up with new terminology yet again. Terminology that is again misrepresentative at best and deceitful at worst.

Gender critical women aren't anti trans - they are pro women. They are pro children.

If (and I seriously question this) children are reading MN then it's important that they read factual information. The TRA falsehoods such as forum members hating trans members, denying their existence, wanting to take away their rights are more damaging to any child or young person reading these threads. No one here is anti trans and that's yet another slur that we are now forced to waste time and enegy dealing with.

Any child or young person who posts here (and sorry, Lily, I consider you neither ) seeking help and support would get exactly that. The contempt is saved for those TRAs who genuinely hate, harm and demean women, not for vulnerable individuals who merit honest and genuine support.

The antitransgender threads have given mn a bad reputation.)

The threads are largely pro-women and their rights and safety not anti trans and the fact people can't work that out is part of the issue.

Why are trans people’s rights and feelings more important than women’s? Why are you more concerned about the feelings of men and let’s face it, it’s usually men, and not the feelings of women who have been abused, harassed, raped and terrorised for being born women? Why do our genuine concerns, rights and fears matter so fucking little, compared to the ‘wants’ and ‘demands’ of a man who wants to be a woman? Why do woman matter so fucking little to the trans’ handmaidens?

You said: Many of you feel that the small minority of men who pretend they want to be a woman simply to gain access to women means that all trans women should be denied access to women toilets, changing rooms etc.

Immediately followed by Perhaps they are exasperated that you don't appear to consider that the problem seems to be with, taking the example of the recent case of the prisoner, the decision taken to accept him at his word that he wanted to be treated as a woman, rather than critically analyse his request and refuse it.

Karen White is a transwoman. How, exactly, do you suggest both critically analysing the requests of transwomen and refusing some while at the same time agreeing the access of all transwomen to women's facilities?

If you're saying that some sex offenders will take advantage of self ID so gatekeeping needs to be retained then that's pretty much the position of the entire FWR board.

And while I'm desperately sorry for children with gender dysphoria, they are exactly who the sex offender contingent is hiding behind. People don't want to upset children, of course they don't, and that becomes a reason not to stand up to legislation that will harm all children and all women.

The threads are largely pro-women and their rights and safety not anti trans and the fact people can't work that out is part of the issue.

I don't think many of those who read these threads would agree unless they are one of the people posting. Most people just can't be bothered to read and/or engage.

f you're saying that some sex offenders will take advantage of self ID so gatekeeping needs to be retained then that's pretty much the position of the entire FWR board.

And while I'm desperately sorry for children with gender dysphoria, they are exactly who the sex offender contingent is hiding behind. People don't want to upset children, of course they don't, and that becomes a reason not to stand up to legislation that will harm all children and all women.

Exactly this.

The antitransgender threads have given mn a bad reputation.

To the contrary, the strength and determination of the women of Mumsnet to protect women’s rights has drawn a lot of people here, including transsexuals who are also being bullied by TRAs. The very people who should be supported by the TRAs are being called truscum and those people who detransition are being treated as traitors and given NO support by those pertaining to have their interests at heart.

The difference comes like this.

Some people believe that woman / girl and increasingly female are social roles with no physical aspect. It is up to you to say whether you are female / girl / woman and if say you are then you must be treated as female / girl / woman in any and all situations. As anyone who says they are a woman / girl / female literally is that (as there is no physical / real / measurable / biological component to these words).
Thus when some women say hold on I dont' want anyone who just says "I'm a woman / girl / female in this prison / sports competition / hospital ward / women's only book group / prize category", I want women / girls / females according to the globally understood meanings of the word ie not men or boys, the people who believe that woman / girl / female is literally nothing more than a feeling in your head see it exactly the same as disbarring any other woman / girl / female.

Of course 99% of the people who say this don't beleive it for a minute > that woman / girl / female are and always have been social categories with no basis in physical reality etc etc so what their motivations are for claiming they do beleive this are questionable.

To the contrary, the strength and determination of the women of Mumsnet to protect women’s rights has drawn a lot of people here, including transsexuals who are also being bullied by TRAs.

It may have drawn some people in but many more are put off.

As for the stickers, no natal women do not have penises, but this statement of fact was targeted at trans people. It was not a passive act.

Are you going to tell us razors were under those stickers? Because you know that is one big fat lie?

Made up by who do you think?

...no wonder the TRAs take umbrage.

Hold on ladies! Once again, it’s all our fault for provoking the menz! If only we would just be quiet and flutter our eyelashes all would be well.

It was not a passive act. Good! Because too many women have been too passive for too long, in their efforts to be ‘nice’. Where the fuck did that get us? Oh yeah, that’s right. It got us nowhere, whereas it got rapists and perverts into women’s jail, where they could continue controlling and abusing women. It got men into female sports, where they could STEAL first place and push women out of sports. It got GGs to accept boys and men into vulnerable girl’s spaces, while colluding to keep the fact that parents didn’t know that their daughters were no longer being kept safe, secret. I’m delighted that women are no longer ‘passive’. About fucking time.

Because too many women have been too passive for too long, in their efforts to be ‘nice’. Where the fuck did that get us? Oh yeah, that’s right. It got us nowhere, whereas it got rapists and perverts into women’s jail, where they could continue controlling and abusing women. It got men into female sports, where they could STEAL first place and push women out of sports. It got GGs to accept boys and men into vulnerable girl’s spaces, while colluding to keep the fact that parents didn’t know that their daughters were no longer being kept safe, secret. I’m delighted that women are no longer ‘passive’. About fucking time.

CORRECT.

I have no agenda here. You can believe me about the trans YP reading MN or not.

Yes, in principle, I agree with the protesters at Pride but not with what they did. It subverted a symbol of empowerment for trans people who perhaps are not TRA sympathetic.

I think in this debate there is a more nuanced argument that is silenced by the red herring of gender critical Vs TRA. Most trans people I have met don't want access to natal women only spaces they just want recognition and a space of their own and most women are comfortable with this.

Also these threads often reduce feminism to women versus (straight?) men. Misandry Vs mysogyny. Surely there is a more collaborative approach to be taken. I like a bit of Susan Faludi in my feminism, but it's not in fashion...

I have no agenda here. You can believe me about the trans YP reading MN or not.

We think that young people should not be lied to, you cannot change your sex but you can wear what you want. What is the problem with not lying to people?

Lying to people is what got us in a position where committees actively signed off on a paedophile rapist being locked in with women who were unable to escape.

Time now to halt this madness.

"Surely there is a more collaborative approach to be taken"
I have never come across a collaborative approach to feminism which did not mean that women should give ground..........

The passive comment was in response to Gender Critical women not having antagonised trans people. I do not think women should be passive: I am not passive.

Most trans people I have met don't want access to natal women only spaces they just want recognition and a space of their own and most women are comfortable with this.

I'm absolutely one of them. But total, unchallenged access to all women and girls' spaces is exactly what is on the political drawing board, and being pushed by transactivists. Look at the documentation, it's all there in black and white in the public domain for anyone to read. This is what will happen unless we stand up to it now.

Schroedinger - I agree, young people should not be lied to but suicide and attempted suicide rates in trans identifying young people are really high - and we need to do something to address that.

I’d absolutely get behind a campaign for a third space. Wholeheartedly. Most would I think.

On the proviso that it wasn’t commandeering disabled facilities. Because that’s another unpleasant item on the agenda.

Most trans people I have met don't want access to natal women only spaces they just want recognition and a space of their own and most women are comfortable with this.

All of the nice transwomen I've met have felt the same way tbh. Unfortunately their voices are getting lost in all the shouts of "ZOMG transwomen must be allowed in all female spaces or else you're all transphobic!"

Have you seen the nasty things TRA's say about transsexuals who physically transition/disagree with them? Have you seen the things they call them?

TRA's don't give a shit about trans rights. All they care about is crapping all over women whilst hiding behind transsexuals so they can look to an outsider like they're the victims.

"Most trans people I have met don't want access to natal women only spaces they just want recognition and a space of their own and most women are comfortable with this."

This is what all teh activists talking to schools, orgs like swim england, girl guides, teh prison service etc & of course the govt are pushing for.

Ask yourself this:
If the trans poeple you know don;t want access to women only spaces
Then who is pushing those demands so hard, and why.

TRA's don't give a shit about trans rights

Been saying this all along. They’re not only anti women, they’re anti actual trans women too.

With every comment you post, Abrewfromabridge, you show that you have read very little about women’s genuine concerns and how those concerns are being proven to have a strong foundation, with the abuses perpetuated towards women by the TRAs. But that’s OK, you go ahead and continue to be ‘woke’ and ‘passive’. When we continue to be proven right, time and time again, you can join all your woke friends in the backwards stampede and pretend you were trying to protect women, after all. The stampede will be that loud, we’ll need earplugs.

I mean all those poeple are pushing for full unrestricted access to any and all female only spaces on the basis the preference of the individual who wants to use them (no legal certs / changes in names pronouns appearance / treatment / or anything required).

Repeat the question -

Ask yourself this:
If the trans poeple you know don;t want access to women only spaces
Then who is pushing those demands so hard, and why.