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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Friends without kids

314 replies

Musicforthemasses18 · 12/09/2018 14:48

Best friend of 20 years doesn’t have kids. We have been trying to meet up for ages- I have offered 2 possible dates where I was going to travel to her & take a day off work.

But she’s pissed off that I can’t stay & that I have to get back to pick the kids up from school. I’d have 5 hours & am travelling to get to get to her. She’s now said she can’t do the dates I have offered & is being difficult.

Aibu to think it’s so fucking hard sometimes trying to explain to people without kids what it’s like to work full time plus raise 2 kids- sort out childcare, manage their clubs & weekend stuff etc.

I feel like taking a days annual leave & offering to travel is making an effort but she’s making it SO hard for me- like I should feel guilty.

OP posts:
KMoKMo · 12/09/2018 19:49

If you don't have children it's very hard make statements about life with them, it's impossible to know what it's like. I have experienced both life with children, and without, so I'm giving my opinion on that.

I agree @Celestia26. Spot on.

zzzzz · 12/09/2018 19:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 19:51

Well yes, I get that knowing something in theory isn't the same as actually experiencing it yourself - but that goes for all experiences. That doesn't mean we can't 'comprehend' something in general terms.

And like I said, the childfree can easily comprehend the stresses of parenthood by observing others. That's why we chose to avoid it.

Bumpitybumper · 12/09/2018 19:53

@PurpleDaisies
I'm sorry but I agree with @Celestia26 that I doubt many childless people can truly imagine what their lives with DC would be like, however I think lots of parents can imagine what their lives without children may have been like as it could potentially be a continuation of their pre-children lives. I don't mean this to sound patronising as before I had children i too thought I could envisage what having children would be like but I was way off the mark and my friends confess to a similar phenomenon. We all had a pretty good grasp on the practicalities of having DC, it was more the emotional strain and relentlessness of it all that caught us off guard. On reflection I agree with a PP who said that people struggle to really understand the impact that any massive commitment would truly have on their life until they start living it. It's like saying imagine being Prime Minister, you might have some idea what the role entials but the reality could prove to be very different.

Musicforthemasses18 · 12/09/2018 19:54

Jesus- this thread has descended into a bit of a bun fight. I really never intended to offend people without kids- I apologise for not being a bit more specific in my OP and generalising. I am quite upset with my friend and ranted a bit when writing this.

As I said, I have really tried to make an effort so it’s not all one sided with her fitting around my kids. But she is quite difficult & doesn’t get the issues that I have.

For the record- my OH does shifts so I do most of the childcare & it’s a massive juggling act as I also work full time compressed hours.

She lives an hour and a half away so it was always going to be tricky but it’s the best I could do at the moment!

OP posts:
Bombardier25966 · 12/09/2018 19:56

Bringing your child's disability into it is very poor taste @Celestia26. You've made some horribly ignorant comments on this thread, trying to turn it round and gather sympathy by using your child's condition is not on (and it is what you're trying to do, that's quite clear).

But what do I know, how could I possibly have an opinion being childless. I just have to live with my own disability, along with thousands of others, and for many of us, the reason why we cannot be parents.

MrMeSeeks · 12/09/2018 19:58

Bumpitybumper
People were offended that it was generalised that people without kids only have socialising and work, not that they can’t understand what it’s like to have kids.
Some of us do have dependants, they just are not children!

MrMeSeeks · 12/09/2018 20:00

Musicforthemasses18
You have tried to meet with her, so you’ve put the effort in, she may have obligations too.
How much time would you have together if you did meet this day?
Is it possible she just thinks it may not be worth meeting on this day if you have to do school pick up?

SerenDippitty · 12/09/2018 20:02

I think lots of parents can imagine what their lives without children may have been like as it could potentially be a continuation of their pre-children lives.

My life without children is completely different after not being able to have them to what it was like when I still thought I would have them.

PurpleDaisies · 12/09/2018 20:05

i think lots of parents can imagine what their lives without children may have been like as it could potentially be a continuation of their pre-children lives.

Hmm

Trying for almost a decade and failing to have a baby while all your friends and family do does tend to affect how you live your life.

Musicforthemasses18 · 12/09/2018 20:06

@mrme prob 4 hours with her so enough time for lunch & a good chat.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 12/09/2018 20:08

It's like saying imagine being Prime Minister, you might have some idea what the role entials but the reality could prove to be very different.

Yes, but many of us have been the deputy pine minister or in the cabinet for years and years. Nobody knows exactly how they will feel when they have a baby but it’s wrong to say you can’t possibly have any idea.

MrMeSeeks · 12/09/2018 20:09

Musicforthemasses18
Although you clearly live far, i would meet up with a friend for that, it’s a decent amount of time.
Maybe leave the ball in her court now.
You’ve offered ( very nicely) to come to her, so see what she now wants to do.

Celestia26 · 12/09/2018 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz · 12/09/2018 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 12/09/2018 20:26

parents can imagine what their lives without children may have been like as it could potentially be a continuation of their pre-children lives.

The key there is their lives. As people get older their lives naturally change whether they have children or not and circumstances can change dramatically, instantly.

When I was 25 I was young, childless and had just got married. We planned to start trying for a baby in a couple of years as we wanted to travel, have fun and concentrate on our careers - he had just finished teacher training and was working in a lovely primary school. I was training to be a sports physio. We had a plan for our lives. That plan involved 3 children that my husband would take a career break to stay at home with. All he wanted was to be a father and we were excited about our future as well as enjoying our present carefree, childfree lives.

Fast forward on to 10 years later. We had then been trying for 8 years and I've had 5 miscarriages and 2 rounds of IVF at £30K each time. We are still together and still hopeful, but the stress of infertility is starting to show. My husband has to take time off work for stress and depression. When he is feeling better we plan another cycle and more investigations. He starts coaching a children's rugby team in his spare time - of which we feel we have too much. I volunteer as a physio for a sports team for disabled people as well as go self employed in my profession to earn more money to pay for the IVF. It is only in our worst moments that we even start to admit that we might not have our happy ending. We no longer plan for 3 children. Just one will be enough. We no longer holiday because we can't afford it and we rarely socialise because all our friends have children.

5 years after that our final IVF cycle ends in a horrendous miscarriage that results in a hysterectomy. I'm now 40 and due to my husband's continuing mental health issues adoption is out of the question. Shortly after that miscarriage he kills himself. I find his body after coming home from taking his mother to hospital for her chemo. I'm left with a pile of debt and no way of paying it off without taking on more and more work, which is what I've done over the last few years.

On top of that I am now the sole carer for my mother in law as she enters end stage cancer. At the moment she can still live independently, but we have plans for her to move in with me shortly so I can care more for her and, when I'm not there, I can arrange nursing care and help from my own father - a retired GP. My father in law has dementia, so I'm responsible for all decisions relating to his care as well.

I guess you can call my call my voluntary work hobbies, but I see it as a way of continuing the legacy of my husband by helping young men with mental health problems.

So don't assume that the exciting carefree life you might have had before having your child is in any way comparable to the lives that some of us continue to live now after long term infertility.

TammySwanson · 12/09/2018 20:27

It's like saying imagine being Prime Minister, you might have some idea what the role entials but the reality could prove to be very different. (sic)

This is such a bad analogy. Only a handful of people will ever be Prime Minister. Literally billions of people have been parents, and everyone is surrounded by friends, family members, acquaintances, colleagues who are parents and so you see it first hand, hear them talk about it. Magazines, newspapers, books, blogs, websites, all forms of media are full of parents and parenting issues. You'd have to be an idiot to not to have some idea of what it's like.

But I hate posts like this, just put here so people can pick on the minority because just one person who happened to have the one characteristic that is sure to unite the majority of posters into an us vs them mentality. There was no reason to use the title the OP did, it was just a deliberate attempt to inflame (and guess what, it worked!) It may has well been entitled 'Friends who are blonde/dark haired' as it has as much to do with any other characteristic as it does to not having children.

MrMeSeeks · 12/09/2018 20:28

Have you spoken to your friend recently op?
Just wondering if there was something possibly going on that she wanted to talk with you, but now you can’t stop she’s upset about it.

SerenDippitty · 12/09/2018 20:30

@Leighhalfpennysthigh Flowers. I’m so sorry.

zzzzz · 12/09/2018 20:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 20:39

Literally billions of people have been parents, and everyone is surrounded by friends, family members, acquaintances, colleagues who are parents and so you see it first hand, hear them talk about it. Magazines, newspapers, books, blogs, websites, all forms of media are full of parents and parenting issues. You'd have to be an idiot to not to have some idea of what it's like.

Thank you.

This whole 'you can't possible have any clue what it's like unless you've been there yourself' attitude is nonsense. Like I said, seeing something (not just motherhood) from the outside isn't the same as going through it yourself but to say you can have 'no idea' is ridiculous.

I have no idea what life on Mars would be like. But I do have an idea what being a parent would be like because I know any number of parents and have been surrounded by families from the day I was born. I do have an idea what motherhood would be like. That's why I chose not to do it.

WelcomeToShootingStars · 12/09/2018 20:39

It is most certainly not those without children making assumptions.

It is very much a case of having to defend and justify having little free time to those who have children who insist that we are not busy and have plenty of flexibility.

Abouttime1978 · 12/09/2018 20:40

OP I have the same issue.

I've found that it was easier when my kids were tiny because they didn't really care if mummy or daddy did bedtime (Bottle fed).

I went away for weekends and enjoyed travelling to friends houses to get a nights uninterrupted sleep.

My kids are little still but two of them are at school. Now we have homework and after school activities and kids parties and play dates.

They also know when one of us isn't there. We have three kids so we have to tag team to get everything done.

I still travel 3+ hours to stay with friends but they have become more reluctant to come to me because I have to spend some time during the day with the kids.

I know it's not the same having to see me with the kids, but I can't always be offloading the kids on my husband, and vice versa.

I try my best to get some balance but despite that my friends aren't that interested in compromise. They are long term friends 20+ years and so it's been tough to deal with.

In 6 years or so we'll be in a different place with 2 kids who probably won't want to know... but my friends will probably have babies by then 😂

PurpleDaisies · 12/09/2018 20:41

I think you are making some pretty hefty assumptions about posters pre children’s life and their lives and commitments now.

That’s what you choose to pick out of leigh’s heartfelt post about how tough life has been because of infertility?

Racecardriver · 12/09/2018 20:43

Your friend is probably upset that you care more about your kids than her (as if it isn't bloody obvious that you would and should do).

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