Friends without kids

[Musicforthemasses18]

Best friend of 20 years doesn’t have kids. We have been trying to meet up for ages- I have offered 2 possible dates where I was going to travel to her & take a day off work.

But she’s pissed off that I can’t stay & that I have to get back to pick the kids up from school. I’d have 5 hours & am travelling to get to get to her. She’s now said she can’t do the dates I have offered & is being difficult.

Aibu to think it’s so fucking hard sometimes trying to explain to people without kids what it’s like to work full time plus raise 2 kids- sort out childcare, manage their clubs & weekend stuff etc.

I feel like taking a days annual leave & offering to travel is making an effort but she’s making it SO hard for me- like I should feel guilty.

Your friend is probably upset that you care more about your kids than her

Of course it isn’t. Nobody thinks that. She’s probably sad she isn’t seeing her friend for as long as she wanted and it’s coming out in an unreasonable way.

I think you are making some pretty hefty assumptions about posters pre children’s life and their lives and commitments now

Wow. Just wow. I'm speechless. I have shared a deeply personal and painful story and I'm accused of making assumptions about parents? Did you actually read anything about what I said? Did you understand that I was trying to explain that everyone's lives change regardless of whether they have children or not?

I've just wasted my time haven't I.

@PurpleDaisies
I wouldn't say that childless adults have no idea about what their lives would be like as parents, I just said it was easier to imagine being childfree if you were a parent than the other way round. Of course infertility could hugely impact your life and I'm truly sorry that anyone had experienced this however I also think there are a whole host of unexpected things that could happen in the process of having DC that could also adversely impact people's lives. Life is rarely straightforward and seldom runs completely to plan but I do standby my opinion about how difficult it is to truly understand the impact children will have on your lives until you have them.

For me it's a really important point as I think there is a pressure from society on women in particular to downplay the impact of children on one's career, social life etc which works to sell prospective parents an unrealistic picture of parenthood and make women feel bad for not being able to "have it all". It's ok to not be able to sustain the friendships, career, hobby or whatever else at the same level as you could before kids. Some people can and some can't but pretending that becoming a parent and holding the responsibility that comes with it should have no effect whatsoever is just illogical and damaging.

As a childfree person these threads make me really sad.

You don't get men (both those that are parents and childfree) arguing like this do you?

I find females to be the most judgemental.

I find females to be the most judgemental

Yes it would seem that way. Probably the same people who think that because we have a vagina we should blindly support other women. Unless they have no children it seems.

@zzzzz Wow. Your contribution to this thread (which IS basically about general stereotyping of childless people) is to make a bitchy comment relating to a small extract of a deeply soul baring post.

I'm glad your not my friend. I'd be surprised with an attitude like that if you had many if any friends at all. That was just plain nasty.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh
No you haven’t wasted your time as other people read your post. The comment from zzzz was completely baffling. You sound like an amazing and incredibly strong person.

I spent a lot of my adult life childless, first as a single woman before I married my DH at the age of 33. I then went through infertility, 1 cycle of IVF, which resulted in no embryos. After that DH and I adopted our 2 DDs, who are now 9 and 6.

So I think I can speak about my experiences as a childless woman, who was infertile. But my experience is not the same as somebody else's. In many ways, my experience was probably easier than that of a woman who has been through multiple cycles of IVF. At least I had closure, it was clear that IVF wouldn't work, so we were able to come to terms with that and move on to adoption with no 'what if' questions.

But please let's end this ridiculous competition, there shouldn't be any us and them.

Thanks for the laugh zzzzz you certainly deserve an award for offering the most obtuse statement in this entire shit show of a thread!

leigh I’m so, so sorry for what you’ve been through.

The take away here for me is that it’s a bit of a wake up call to see in black and white what many parents really think about non-parents and the lives they lead.

As some div helpfully pointed out to me upthread, no, I will never ‘know what it is like to have sole responsibility for another human life’. Not through lack of trying, mind you. You’re right though, I won’t. I guess I’m lucky to have people like that though to keep me honest and remind me of the fact that I’ll never be as busy or important as those who are 100% responsible for another human life!

Personally it’s not really about who is busier than who, though. In my experience it is the expectation of many of my parent friends that grates when it comes to putting effort into our friendships. But what do I know? As many posters here have pointed out, they know what my life is like, because they lived it before they sprogged up. Never mind what I’ve gone on to do since.

A lot of people on this thread need to take five minutes out of their oh so busy lives to try and think about things from other peoples’ perspective, but I won’t hold my breath.

to those who have responded with kind words. I've been around MN for years under various different guises and have never spoken about my experiences before, so following that attack I'm feeling a bit vulnerable and so going to watch Supervet and cuddle my dog as therapy!

It’s not bitchy to point out that not everyone posting had the “carefree” prechild life the poster suggested. Having a harder life experience doesn’t make your opinion more “right”.

The way you did it was disgusting, You didn’t even acknowledge the rest of the post which was heartbreaking.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh

Thank you for sharing your story. There are no words.

to those who have responded with kind words. I've been around MN for years under various different guises and have never spoken about my experiences before, so following that attack I'm feeling a bit vulnerable and so going to watch Supervet and cuddle my dog as therapy!

Cuddling up to your pet is one of the best ways to help mend pain, so cuddle away.
I do too

Actually I've got both of them here instead of one of them plotting his next adventure!

Leigh halfpenny, you are incredibly strong. Thank you for sharing your story.

I actually think I was "busier" pre children, not as tired but had more commitments. But mine are toddlers and their dad is amazing so I have got my evenings free if I want it. I generally don't, I want to lie in my pjs with snacks and a box set.

OP, have you thought that the problem is that your friend wants to catch up on an evening with a few glasses of wine? Offer for her to come to you one Friday or Saturday evening when the kids are in bed and either stop at your house with a bottle of wine or go somewhere local. If she’s got a problem with that then really just let her go.

Leighhalfpennysthigh I’m so sorry to hear your story. I don’t have the right words to express my sympathy for you and your husband and mother in law. I’ve had infertility for two years which has been all encompassing. I cannot begin to imagine your suffering.

It just goes to show that we should not judge others and how they live their lives. Childless people can be going through a much much tougher and busier time than people with children and of course vice Versa.

Women must stop judging and support one another instead.

Wow at some of the replies

Yes obv having children its harder to organise stuff as you have a little person dependent on you

I know what it is like to be childfree and not through choice

It took 10yrs ttc and 4 failed ivf and the 5th worked and our dd was conceived - she is our miracle

During those painful infertile years my husband killed his self and whole world shattered. No husband. No baby.

So @ Leighhalfpennysthigh my heart goes out to you as know how you are feeling 💐💐

But as I said eventually ivf worked - I’m an older mum due to Mother Nature not playing ball - but wouldn’t change it

But I still think back of the painful years when all friends got preg. Mainly Naturally /some by accident and odd one with first cycle of ivf working and nhs so no huge loans to pay for it as we did

Op - any chance your friend wants kids And finds it hard being around you

Could she come and stay one night with you so no childcare and have a catch up or does she have other responsibilities animals /parents etc

Being self employed same as me - maybe she has to cancel social stuff due to work as if she says no she may not work for a while

This whole thread is a pathetic competition of who’s got the busiest life - with kids or without. Meanwhile men are ruling the world (and we wonder why).

This whole thread is a pathetic competition of who’s got the busiest life - with kids or without. Meanwhile men are ruling the world (and we wonder why)
This with bells on.

It can be incredibly hard on both side, I always try and accommodate my friends with kids, even if it’s just travelling further because it’s easier. But on the flip side, if you’re childless you do end up feeling very sidelined, you were once best mates and now they don’t have time for you. It can be very hard as you get older. I have empathy and I understand why. But it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.

I had a friend who had good childcare and a nanny but never wanted to use them for seeing me as I was so flexible, only used them for important things. Now logically that’s ok. But it didn’t make me feel ok. That could be irrational, but it felt as if they had made a list of people who could and counts be flexible, which again is logical, but not very thoughtful.

Also I have to add, where the fuck are all the men? The ones I have the best relationship with have equal caring partners who share all responsibilities and know that long term friendships are really worth looking after.

We all have a responsibility to look after all of our relationships in life. Because one day things might go tits up and you’ll need your friends around.

@musicforthemasses

Yes your friend was unreasonable. As you said, hard for her to understand when she doesn't have kids herself.

@Ohluckyme

This whole thread is a pathetic competition of who’s got the busiest life - with kids or without. Meanwhile men are ruling the world (and we wonder why.)

The reason 'men are ruling the world' is because they don't have the same commitments and shit to deal with in life as mothers do.

Nothing to do with the so-called 'competition' between women!

@TammySwanson

Literally billions of people have been parents, and everyone is surrounded by friends, family members, acquaintances, colleagues who are parents and so you see it first hand, hear them talk about it. Magazines, newspapers, books, blogs, websites, all forms of media are full of parents and parenting issues. You'd have to be an idiot to not to have some idea of what it's like.

@IcedPurple

I agree. This whole 'you can't possible have any clue what it's like unless you've been there yourself' attitude is nonsense. Like I said, seeing something (not just motherhood) from the outside isn't the same as going through it yourself but to say you can have 'no idea' is ridiculous.

Utter rot. What a load of nonsense!

You can read as many baby books, and blogs and websites (about BABIES) as you like, and you can walk around mothercare as often as you like, and spend time with OTHER PEOPLES children as much as you like, and you WILL NOT have a clue what it is like to have kids yourself! It's insulting to everyone who has struggled to raise their kids with all the trials and tribulations and hardships and sacrifices that go with it!

People who think they know all about being a parent and think they have the right to comment on childrearing, when they have never had kids, really piss me off. No! You DON'T know what it's like, so stop trying to pretend you do.

People who have children, have experience of having them - AND not having them, so their opinions and views are much more valid than the child-free brigade. Whether they like it or not.

And to be honest, it's the 'child free by CHOICE' brigade who are the most opinionated and annoying. The ones who want them, but haven't had any yet, don't seem to have the same arrogant attitude. However, I do get tired of the implication (from some) that women who have children are not allowed an opinion, in case it offends those without. People can't go treading on eggshells all their life.

And you can 'wow just wow' as much as you like at my post, and say you are glad I am not YOUR friend. I am as entitled to my views as the 'wow just wow' brigade, and I don't give a monkey's tit if you wouldn't want to be my friend.

As a few posters have said, I don't see why women have to automatically support OTHER women, purely because we have a vagina in common! So even if someone posts something I don't agree with at ALL, I am supposed to nod in agreement because she is also female? Do bore off.......