20-year-old son doesn't want to grow up

[Loo18]

My 20-year-old son is clever, funny and can be kind and loving. However, he failed most of his GCSEs because he didn't turn up/revise and basically since then has done very little. He did a Duke of Edinburgh course when he was 16. He's had a few jobs in hospitality that he's left or been sacked from after a month or two because he fails to turn up/be on time/takes holidays and doesn't go back etc.

He lives at home and talks a good talk about setting up various businesses, getting interim jobs, making music -( he does do this).
He clearly craves my attention and loves nothing more than a day out with me and his younger sister (13-years-old). He has lots of friends and other people who meet him think he's funny and bright but just immature. People endlessly tell me to give him time.

I encourage him to look for work, have said I will support him (and pay for) him going back into education. However, he'd clearly prefer to play fortnite through the night in him room, sleep all day and then make encouraging noises about all the jobs he's applied for or interviews he's got but they rarely materialise if they existed at all.

Like his dad he knows how to emotionally manipulate me (I know he's doing it and it still ties me in knots) and often has very plausible reasons/excuses for not doing/doing something that once again means he's not working.

He received almost £30,000 from his dad;s estate earlier this year and spent it within four months (I asked his dad's family not to give it to him directly but they wouldn't listen).

He clearly can get jobs but can't/won't keep them and doesn't seem to understand that whatever his career choice in the future doing ANY job now is better than non from prospective employers point of view not to mention his own finances and self-esteem.

HOWEVER:
To set all this into context his dad was an emotionally abusive alcoholic and I didn't find the strength or have the resources to leave him until 7 years ago. He died a couple of years ago.

My daughter was born in 2005 and I now see my son felt abandoned not only by his dad (he had a poor relationship with my son and never spent any time with him just bought him lots of stuff) but also me, his mum.

Of course at the time I didn't see this and not a day goes by that I don't feel guilty for not only staying in such a dysfunctional relationship/bringing children into that relationship /not getting out and protecting the my son, and subsequently my daughter from it sooner.

The reality of living with an emotionally abusive partner and alcoholic also meant that I don't think I was the best parent. I'd also be over emotional and probably shouted at my son too much. I also hate myself for this too.

When I finally left that relationship - my son was then 13/14 - i soon met a lovely man (his daughter and my son were friends) who was understanding of mine and my kid's situ and caring.

I made a massive mistake of inviting him to move in with us while my son was on an extended holiday so when he came back, this new man (albeit one he had known for a couple of years) was in situ in our house.

Pair that with the typical troubled teen behaviour and several years of hate and interference of an alcoholic father in denial, and it was a toxic mix.

Fastforward to this year and my son and partner have a very on/off relationship. My son is still resentful that my partner is here doesn't hide that very well even when they are getting on. On the other hand my partner, unhindered by my guilt and motherly emotions, says I am allowing my son to get away with emotional manipulation and acting like a child when he should be embracing some aspects of adult-hood - ie getting a job and being thoughtful about the needs of others.

My son isn't inclined to listen much to him because the nature of my partners work means I am the chief breadwinner and my son says why should be listen to someone who isn't in his view fully paying his way.
My daughter has a good relationship with my partner but I see my son is trying to poison that too but emotionally manipulating her into believing he is the injured party. This really isn't true.
Sorry for the long post.
I don't even know what I'm asking tbh....I suppose I'm interested in thoughts and opinions from anyone who's been in a similar situ and if anyone can point me in the direction of professional help that will make me stronger to deal with my son's manipulation.
Unfortunately we live in London were rent is so high that simply paying a month's rent and deposit on a room for him and kicking him out isn't really an option - but all suggestions very gratefully received. This is the first time I've ever posted here - please be gentle.

The thing is - nothing but kicking him out is going to work here. Or you could do what mh friend's mum did to her sister: boot out the door every 9am to "look for work" and not let back in til teatime. She did actually start looking for work once staying in bed til lunchtime then farting around on line wasnt an option. Oh, and his fair share of household chores in the evening.

You are clearly torn.
But at what point would you think it was right that he get a job/study/behave like an adult if not now? 21? 25? 30?

Yes, he undoubtedly had a less than ideal childhood and maybe some decisions you made were not the very best ones BUT it is not that uncommon. Lots of people have less than perfect childhoods and still move on to a functional adulthood.

Has he ever seen a counsellor? Would he do so?

Are you currently paying for everything since he has spent the 30k? Phone? Clothes? Gifts?
If you are paying, you can dial it back to just providing a room to sleep in and nothing else. Change the WiFi code and don't give him the new one unless he pays 25pc of the bill. Don't pay for mobile, clothes, activities, toiletries etc.

Have you had a proper sit down and talk with him about what he wants to do? Just the two of you, maybe over lunch or coffee etc? Make a real effort to listen to him (don't speak for or over him) but clearly deliver the message that something has to change

I'd be taking the router to work with me every day. If he wants to apply for jobs, he can do that from the library.

It's ironic that he judges your partner for not contributing as much - how much of that £30K did you see?

You made some poor decisions. Don't we all. At some point though you have to stop making poor decisions. He is an adult and needs to stand on his own 2 feet. He needs to wake up and realise he lives in the real world which won't bend to him because his dad was a drinker.

Stop letting him manipulate you. However hard it is stand fast. Remind him that he has a cheek talking about how your Dp doesn't fully pay his way, when he pays nothing. I assume your Dp pays his fair share based on earnings?

Your son is a grown man who does not consistently shave a job or income. He needs to realise that before shit stirring about anyone else.

Would he go to family therapy with you? He sounds like a chronic procrastinator amongst other things and he may well have some deep-seated but very treatable issues there. Best of luck

I left an emotionally abusive man too. I think you have to acknowledge that the end result is that your son is not as mature as the average 20 year old. I would go for something really simple like taking the modem to work every day so that he is BORED in to leaving the house.

The past is the past, but I think your feelings of guilt are absolutely crippling your son. You are treating him like an infant so of course he's going to act like one. What is he doing around the house? Given that he's a grown man it had better be a hell of a lot. Who's paying for his phone, food, internet, etc? You? If so, that nonsense needs to stop. He needs to get a job. Now. No excuses. If he refuses, then he will have to learn how to use his charms to convince his mates to let him crash on their couch.

ps tellingn that he loves nothing better than a day out with his mum and his younger brother. could you line up two more days out, one before a big talk and one for after the big talk so that the tough line that you should take is sandiched between two nice days out.

At the point we’re get got the money you should of supported him to move out

I don't have any advice, just a warning. My mother in law has had her 39 year old son at home for the last 8 years. He doesn't really work, help out or do much except hang out with his boyfriend, take drugs and go online.
Let this be a warning!

Also, I'd be very concerned about where the £30k went. My BIL got himself £20k in debt over a year and most of that went on drugs.

omg @gammeldragz 39 and still at home.

Not still, he left for years (and got into a lot of trouble!) but they took in him to help him out and he never left!

You can't look at the past

You need to deal with today's issues

Who's paying his way? Food phone internet etc

If it's you stop doing it, he's comfy and won't budge unless you stand firm and make changes

You are enabling him to be a layabout - so his young adulthood is also being a missed oppourtinty

He can only manipulate you if you afford him the opportunity. Time to get tough because the status quo is in nobody’s interest, especially his.

Parenting out of guilt, is poor parenting.

I disagree with the advice for taking modem away etc. Treating him like a child isn't going to help him grow up. Talk to him like an adult, explain the impact of his behaviour on you and the rest of the family as well as on himself. Set out expectations of him as an adult member of the household, eg contributing financially and helping around the home. Help him set out some goals, short and long term and discuss ways he could achieve them. Maybe a 6 month goal of Job and somewhere to live, or if he opts for education then part time job and pays you rent.

maybe be honest about the adult contibution he will need to make to live there, and frame it in the context of your partners contribution - so he can see that both are 'fair' (because Im assuming your partner pays an proportional share of his income as you do, even though he earnes less)
That way he sees that adults living in the home need to contribute, financially, emotionally, and chore/running wise.

Or yes, he will need to leave

give a deadline and stick to it

I can see your dilemma, but can I ask what the 30k went on? Did he save any of it at all? That could’ve been a house deposit in a further out London zone.
Could you maybe set some deadlines - I.e get a job by X? That might help give him a kick. And it can be supportive and collaborative rather than just ‘do this by X’. The problem is if he has a cushy set up he won’t be in any hurry to leave it, so things need to change.

You can easily get a room in London for £500 a month, and some cheaper options too. I would save up and pay a couple of months rent and deposit on a room and throw him out. It doesn't have to be in the best area, and it can be a single room. And I would not let him back in.

Get a Koala box and limit his wifi - if you pay for it then you decide who and when that's available to them

He's abng this facility to play all night and then too tired to look for work or even keep in a job -

So yes take it away - it's a big issue

he'd clearly prefer to play fortnite through the night in him room, sleep all day

I'd say that was an indulgent parent. Even if it comes from guilt, its not helping. Making things worse.

I'd take everything like that away - he's not even paying for it I assume - though spending £30000 in 4 months. The mind boggles.

Maybe you are sorry about the past. Have you said sorry? (and meant it obviously). Then you need to start afresh, anew, for both of you.

And a shame you didn't throw him out when he was given the 30k.

my son says why should be listen to someone who isn't in his view fully paying his way.

I hope you point out to him that he is no position to complain about anyone else not paying their way; and that if he wants to get any support from you he can start listening to your partner.

And you need to put in place a number of further conditions including getting a job and keeping it, paying rent, and helping around the house. If he doesn't want to do any of those, you are going to have to exercise some tough love and tell him to move out.

how much money does he have left? Id suggest you set a deadline for him to move out - I gave my son 2 months notice when he dropped out of college for the second time. Find and keep a job and move out.

I kept sending him room links from spareroom.com. He had an inheritance of 3k and I told him if he got a part time job, his 3k was enough to rent a room for 6 months. I emphasised that he could live the way he wanted, but he shouldnt expect me to finance him.

I did nothing for him. I gave him nothing. I didnt even cater for him. I had recently decorated his bedroom (a necessity due to water damage) and stressed that his sister would happily move in to the fresh attractive room.

AFter a couple of weeks feeling like a victim, he accepted an apprenticeship. Not for the first time. I stressed that he would be paying me rent from his apprenticeship and that if he didnt like that, he could move out. and that the deadline stood if he fucked up again and lost his job - he would have to move out with littke or no notice.

The only way he could stay was to contribute, and to do that, he needed a full time job.

He of course offered the guilt trip, all the reasons why he was messed up (depression, anxiety, ill, i hate him, etc etc etc) but he has kept the apprenticeship and gets up to work every day, pays his rent, and actually keeps his room reasonably tidy. Not perfect, but small steps.

It was a hard thing to do, but I could not live with him festering in his bedroom, taking drugs, getting into trouble with the law.

I made a massive mistake of inviting him to move in with us while my son was on an extended holiday so when he came back, this new man (albeit one he had known for a couple of years) was in situ in our house.

What the actual fuck???

My BIL is 29 he left school at 16 and hasn't worked since. My MIL has enabled this through a salary from her business he is unbelievably lazy. There father was an abusive alcoholic too and she still carries a lot of guilt. I think this is why she excuses his behaviour. He is also an obsessive gamer.

I just wanted to say please try to sort this now, the longer time goes on the worse it gets. I don't know what the right answer is but a certain amount of carrot/stick pushing is required.