20-year-old son doesn't want to grow up

[Loo18]

My 20-year-old son is clever, funny and can be kind and loving. However, he failed most of his GCSEs because he didn't turn up/revise and basically since then has done very little. He did a Duke of Edinburgh course when he was 16. He's had a few jobs in hospitality that he's left or been sacked from after a month or two because he fails to turn up/be on time/takes holidays and doesn't go back etc.

He lives at home and talks a good talk about setting up various businesses, getting interim jobs, making music -( he does do this).
He clearly craves my attention and loves nothing more than a day out with me and his younger sister (13-years-old). He has lots of friends and other people who meet him think he's funny and bright but just immature. People endlessly tell me to give him time.

I encourage him to look for work, have said I will support him (and pay for) him going back into education. However, he'd clearly prefer to play fortnite through the night in him room, sleep all day and then make encouraging noises about all the jobs he's applied for or interviews he's got but they rarely materialise if they existed at all.

Like his dad he knows how to emotionally manipulate me (I know he's doing it and it still ties me in knots) and often has very plausible reasons/excuses for not doing/doing something that once again means he's not working.

He received almost £30,000 from his dad;s estate earlier this year and spent it within four months (I asked his dad's family not to give it to him directly but they wouldn't listen).

He clearly can get jobs but can't/won't keep them and doesn't seem to understand that whatever his career choice in the future doing ANY job now is better than non from prospective employers point of view not to mention his own finances and self-esteem.

HOWEVER:
To set all this into context his dad was an emotionally abusive alcoholic and I didn't find the strength or have the resources to leave him until 7 years ago. He died a couple of years ago.

My daughter was born in 2005 and I now see my son felt abandoned not only by his dad (he had a poor relationship with my son and never spent any time with him just bought him lots of stuff) but also me, his mum.

Of course at the time I didn't see this and not a day goes by that I don't feel guilty for not only staying in such a dysfunctional relationship/bringing children into that relationship /not getting out and protecting the my son, and subsequently my daughter from it sooner.

The reality of living with an emotionally abusive partner and alcoholic also meant that I don't think I was the best parent. I'd also be over emotional and probably shouted at my son too much. I also hate myself for this too.

When I finally left that relationship - my son was then 13/14 - i soon met a lovely man (his daughter and my son were friends) who was understanding of mine and my kid's situ and caring.

I made a massive mistake of inviting him to move in with us while my son was on an extended holiday so when he came back, this new man (albeit one he had known for a couple of years) was in situ in our house.

Pair that with the typical troubled teen behaviour and several years of hate and interference of an alcoholic father in denial, and it was a toxic mix.

Fastforward to this year and my son and partner have a very on/off relationship. My son is still resentful that my partner is here doesn't hide that very well even when they are getting on. On the other hand my partner, unhindered by my guilt and motherly emotions, says I am allowing my son to get away with emotional manipulation and acting like a child when he should be embracing some aspects of adult-hood - ie getting a job and being thoughtful about the needs of others.

My son isn't inclined to listen much to him because the nature of my partners work means I am the chief breadwinner and my son says why should be listen to someone who isn't in his view fully paying his way.
My daughter has a good relationship with my partner but I see my son is trying to poison that too but emotionally manipulating her into believing he is the injured party. This really isn't true.
Sorry for the long post.
I don't even know what I'm asking tbh....I suppose I'm interested in thoughts and opinions from anyone who's been in a similar situ and if anyone can point me in the direction of professional help that will make me stronger to deal with my son's manipulation.
Unfortunately we live in London were rent is so high that simply paying a month's rent and deposit on a room for him and kicking him out isn't really an option - but all suggestions very gratefully received. This is the first time I've ever posted here - please be gentle.

Tell him that since he is someone who has pissed the best part of 30 grand up the wall with nothing to show for it, he has no right to say he won't listen to his mother's advice.

OP - get a koala box

You get the main router password which works the TV your laptop etc

DS gets the Koala password

You log into it via an app in your phone

You can restrict the shedule what apps he's alllowed and how long for you can block individual devices etc

For those with younger kids there's a homework feature which disables social media etc

It's the way forward

Limit the internet. Spend more time with him. Think about family therapy and personal therapy for him.

He has been through a lot and none of it was his choice - his abusive father, the time it took you to leave him, you moving your new P in while your son was away...I’m not attacking you because you’ve had a nightmare too but he was a kid. Maybe he is acting out, and you do need to make some new rules, but don’t chuck him out.

Of course @JungWan - I'm not saying it shouldn't affect you. I've got depression and PTSD from my childhood experiences, I've had therapy and I take medication. It's shit. But I found the more I let what happened overwhelm me, the less motivated I felt. What I'm saying is that perhaps he needs to be given a shove to do what he needs to do to find that motivation and drive - and that starts with finding self-respect, by getting a job, maybe looking into therapy, etc. Sitting on your computer isn't that.

And btw, let's not forget, that if you and his Dad had still been together when he died, that £30,000 would have come to you, and your Son would have received nothing. And he still wouldn't have had a job, no doubt citing your inheritance as a reason for him not to have to work.

We'd all like a lavish lifestyle! He's funny.

In your shoes I think I would say to him enough is enough, you will be leaving this house on 1st February 2019. No ifs or buts, absolutely definite.
That gives him 5 months to get his head together and make plans and carry them out.

If the 30k is gone is he claiming benefit? Does he buy his own food and contribute to bills with this money? I think you need to make being unemployed less appealing - no Internet until he does xyz around the house. He needs to contribute at least 50% of whatever money he has to you for board and bills etc.

Also, you sound a lot like you're blaming him for not bothering with his GCSEs. He needs counselling and he needs therapy. Old wounds will need to be opened to heal and maybe he needs this before he goes into work.

As a bare minimum, I’d stop buying anything for him bar food and change the WiFi password at 10pm every night - Mumsnet8 - and change it back at 9am. That will stop him playing fortnight overnight, as he’s never going to get a job if he’s pissing about with a nocturnal lifestyle.

I think you should go for therapy OP. Much of what you are saying involves what the men in your life wants - what DP thinks, what son thinks, you ex-h behaviour. What about YOU? If anyone, particularly anyone living a parasitic lifestyle at my expense, implies I was a loser, they’d get the bollocking of a lifestyle.

Have a cup of tea,- biscuit and work out how to change the WiFi password. If he says anything, just say it’s in the whole households interest that every member gets a good nights sleep

It sounds like he missed out on being a child when he was a child and needs a bit of time with you and his sister now. He needs all the basics- to know he's loved, safe and secure now.

He's also lost his Dad and usually kids whose parents are distant or abusive actually long for their affection more so even though his Dad was inadequate he will be feeling his loss.

People's brains continue to develop until they are 25 so some kids do go through extended adolescence over the age of 18 and he has lots of reasons to be the way he is.

If your son feels rejected by your DP, who expects your DS to behave like an adult, when he is only a young adult and a troubled one at that then it might make things worse.

Sit down with your son and agree house rules and a career plan if you can.

An ultimatum is necessary, isn’t it? You probably need to stop excusing his behaviours and act with tough love. He’s able to continue his feckless lifestyle because he can.

Stop all payments to him. No subsidies at all.
I wouldn’t be able to actually throw him out but I wouldn’t be providing food, toiletries, cash etc. No clothes, no ‘loans’ nothing. I’d also not tolerate nocturnal music making. I would also be ensuring his benefits were cancelled if he was receiving job seekers and wasn’t actively seeking work. Don’t give him money for interviews book the train tickets or get a bus ticket.

He needs to either get and keep a job or restart his education- probably both. You need to turn the internet off when others aren’t using it. I do think sending him out to seek work at 9am and not allowing him back in until 5pm might have some value.

No days out with you except as a reward for a full weeks work. I buy my 22 year old lunch sometimes but then he’s already served 4 years as an officer in the forces. He works very long, erratic shifts and gets sent away at short notice for up to 9 months. Has he considered the armed forces as a way of getting qualifications, earning, doing interesting things and being supported to follow your hobbies? That might give him the structure he needs.

My 20 year old is about to move to Italy for a year of her degree and has already sorted her own accommodation, a job, an Italian literature course and ballet classes. She’ll need financial support but has worked out how much she’ll have to budget. He’s on a fast motorbike to nowhere. He’s not bright - if he were he’d realise he’s at serious risk of missing out on a comfortable and pleasant life altogether.

If you must blame his childhood and instigate ‘therapy’ then he can do that very easily alongside working.

An idea - not necessarily a good one - the alcoholic father, did he have undiagnosed mental health issues, that he used alcohol as self-medication for? Or, not even mental health issues, but possibly other things - ASD, for one, high anxiety (which may fall under MH, I'm not sure).
How like his father is your son? Because you've commented that there are similarities in behaviour patterns, but they might be learnt patterns of course - or there could potentially be some kind of heritable traits that he's picked up from his father.

You need to be stronger with him. But it would also be a good idea to make sure that there isn't any hidden issue going on, that he's not struggling because of a hidden MH issue.

Sit down with your son and agree house rules and a career plan if you can.

OP has. He doesn't stick to it, op let's him not stick to it or he tells her she isn't good enough to help him plan his life.

Hear hear Eliza! Is everyone missing the bit where you moved your partner into your son's home whilst your son was on holiday and your partner gives minimal contribution and gets on your sons case for doing the same?.

I am not a perfect mother by any stretch but you are missing some glaringly obvious things going on right under your nose.

You need to focus on your son. He was neglected by you and his father. How do you think a young boy felt living with an abusive alcoholic?

Acknowledge your role in this.

Apologise to your son, kick your waste of space of a partner out of your son's home and make your son feel important for once. How do you think he felt when his father died and a younger sibling arrived?

Of course he's lost, you have put him last. He sounds like a really nice boy who has lost his way. Listen to him and encourage him. See can you get him a place in college part time to ease him in or help him get a job.

Stop comparing him to his father. He is not stupid and he is picking up on your resentment.

Stop that self indulgent crap about the regrets that you feel. Woman up and treat your son properly. Do anything you can to build up his confidence.

whatifmaybe
You had the “benefit” of growing up by being responsible and found your place within the family. It sounds as if ops ds didn’t. I also had a difficult childhood and was terribly immature in relation to my peers because my parents were very immature themselves and lacked a great number of skills to be well rounded adults. As they didn’t have the appropriate knowledge, they were unable to pass it on to me and I have now obtained this through extensive therapy.

Well done for doing so well but please don’t assume it is that easy for others.

Loo
It sounds as if you are doing exactly what dhs cousin did with their child. He is now about 40 and has never held down a job longer than a month and he’s only had 2/3 jobs. His father was abusive with ocd and a high functioning alcoholic. He also hit his mother. His mother was ott protective of her ds and treated him like a quasi spouse and little king. He also had a penchant for the finer things in life and once his mother got power of attorney for her mother, they stole around 20k for him to fritter away.

Anyway, his mother finally divorced his father when his father reported him to the police for beating him up. As a result he spent a couple of years in jail. Now he survives I know not how, still living with his mother having depleted her savings, stealing, taking drugs and occasionally strangling her for good measure.

I totally agree with pps. Tough love. Getting him busy. Perhaps you could put a thread on here asking for life experience of people, who started on low paid jobs and worked their way up. If he can perhaps read about a number of older adults, who’ve succeeded he may be able to see the benefit. Could you also sit down together and write down his plan and get him to put together how he may achieve these goals?

Your son is a lazy waster, heppy to bum off of you for all eternity. As long as you allow this, he will contnue. Cut him off, and kick him out. Tell him he has one month to get a job, any job and start paying rent/upkeep or he is out. Then start the wheels in motion to have him kicked out. Tough love is his only chance now.

Lyinglow
I definitely didn’t miss this. Bloody awful decision. Op needs to seriously apologise to this. Not guilt parent.

Is everyone missing the bit where you moved your partner into your son's home whilst your son was on holiday and your partner gives minimal contribution and gets on your sons case for doing the same?.

No I didn't miss that she moved her partner in while the son was away. It was a bad move. But it's been done and gone. It's not an excuse for her ds to be so disrespectful.

I can't see where she says the Dp contributes a minimal amount. She says he earns less so contributes less. Are you suggesting people duno their partners if they earn less? That will work out for women, who on the whole earn less than men

He has a knack of agreeing, saying he's getting his act together and making changes but not actually doing anything.

Because there are no consequences if he does nothing. He just gets to carry on his current very nice life. It has to be made clear to him that if he doesn't get a job and start paying his way he has to leave.

Op it sounds like you have acknowledged mistakes and we all make them.

The problem is trying to make up for these mistakes is enabling your sons lack of responsibility. I think maybe agree a plan with him in terms of looking for a job, duties he does around the house if he is unemployed and say you expect him to either be back in education or in his own place in six months.

I also think restricting internet access etc is smart.

I would advise counselling for both of you though as these wounds are clearly quite open now. It might be healthier to talk them through.

Lyinglow, where do you get the perception that OP's partner is a waste of space and making a minimal contribution? She says he works, it's just that he earns less than she does, which is hardly a crime.

People are so harsh about this. Your DS is still young and still learning. He's had an alcoholic Dad, dealt with the death of a parent, a tricky relationship with your DP and he's struggling- but wouldn't anyone in that situation?

Sure, turn off the internet at night, set house rules and a career plan etc. but why punish a young guy who is not actively rude/unkind and just wants to feel secure?

Are you and your DC from a more middle class background than your DP?