20-year-old son doesn't want to grow up

[Loo18]

My 20-year-old son is clever, funny and can be kind and loving. However, he failed most of his GCSEs because he didn't turn up/revise and basically since then has done very little. He did a Duke of Edinburgh course when he was 16. He's had a few jobs in hospitality that he's left or been sacked from after a month or two because he fails to turn up/be on time/takes holidays and doesn't go back etc.

He lives at home and talks a good talk about setting up various businesses, getting interim jobs, making music -( he does do this).
He clearly craves my attention and loves nothing more than a day out with me and his younger sister (13-years-old). He has lots of friends and other people who meet him think he's funny and bright but just immature. People endlessly tell me to give him time.

I encourage him to look for work, have said I will support him (and pay for) him going back into education. However, he'd clearly prefer to play fortnite through the night in him room, sleep all day and then make encouraging noises about all the jobs he's applied for or interviews he's got but they rarely materialise if they existed at all.

Like his dad he knows how to emotionally manipulate me (I know he's doing it and it still ties me in knots) and often has very plausible reasons/excuses for not doing/doing something that once again means he's not working.

He received almost £30,000 from his dad;s estate earlier this year and spent it within four months (I asked his dad's family not to give it to him directly but they wouldn't listen).

He clearly can get jobs but can't/won't keep them and doesn't seem to understand that whatever his career choice in the future doing ANY job now is better than non from prospective employers point of view not to mention his own finances and self-esteem.

HOWEVER:
To set all this into context his dad was an emotionally abusive alcoholic and I didn't find the strength or have the resources to leave him until 7 years ago. He died a couple of years ago.

My daughter was born in 2005 and I now see my son felt abandoned not only by his dad (he had a poor relationship with my son and never spent any time with him just bought him lots of stuff) but also me, his mum.

Of course at the time I didn't see this and not a day goes by that I don't feel guilty for not only staying in such a dysfunctional relationship/bringing children into that relationship /not getting out and protecting the my son, and subsequently my daughter from it sooner.

The reality of living with an emotionally abusive partner and alcoholic also meant that I don't think I was the best parent. I'd also be over emotional and probably shouted at my son too much. I also hate myself for this too.

When I finally left that relationship - my son was then 13/14 - i soon met a lovely man (his daughter and my son were friends) who was understanding of mine and my kid's situ and caring.

I made a massive mistake of inviting him to move in with us while my son was on an extended holiday so when he came back, this new man (albeit one he had known for a couple of years) was in situ in our house.

Pair that with the typical troubled teen behaviour and several years of hate and interference of an alcoholic father in denial, and it was a toxic mix.

Fastforward to this year and my son and partner have a very on/off relationship. My son is still resentful that my partner is here doesn't hide that very well even when they are getting on. On the other hand my partner, unhindered by my guilt and motherly emotions, says I am allowing my son to get away with emotional manipulation and acting like a child when he should be embracing some aspects of adult-hood - ie getting a job and being thoughtful about the needs of others.

My son isn't inclined to listen much to him because the nature of my partners work means I am the chief breadwinner and my son says why should be listen to someone who isn't in his view fully paying his way.
My daughter has a good relationship with my partner but I see my son is trying to poison that too but emotionally manipulating her into believing he is the injured party. This really isn't true.
Sorry for the long post.
I don't even know what I'm asking tbh....I suppose I'm interested in thoughts and opinions from anyone who's been in a similar situ and if anyone can point me in the direction of professional help that will make me stronger to deal with my son's manipulation.
Unfortunately we live in London were rent is so high that simply paying a month's rent and deposit on a room for him and kicking him out isn't really an option - but all suggestions very gratefully received. This is the first time I've ever posted here - please be gentle.

Living at home at 20 is normal but your son definitely needs to look hard for a job & plan for his future.
It's not easy when you are just out of your teens, I remember I had issues but I did some temping with job agencies & started to plan to move out & did my nurse training at 24.
Maybe he could do some temping in order to find out what type of job he enjoys? While he's living at home he doesn't need a totally regular income so now is the time to try things out.
You don't need lots of qualifications to temp in areas such as shops, factories, care homes etc & it could lead to a permanent job, or wanting to do some training.
Also it would increase his confidence.

Ive known several lads have a rocky start in the world of work after leaving school but mostly they turned out well.

Just don't let him stay at home til he's 41 - I have 2 cousins that age whose parents still haven't encouraged them to leave!!

I'm guessing a few champagne nights and fancy meals in London for a few weekends would burn through 30k quickly. Perhaps, he is depressed, he has had a taste of the good life, now it is back to the reality of minimum wage job and living at home. How many of us have such an opportunity of 30k in a lifetime ?

I'm still getting over him getting through 30k and you still funding him.

He needs to start paying you rent - and I mean proper rent, not peppercorn - or he moves out. I'm sorry to sound harsh but you have helped create this. You'll still be here in 20 years if this carries on.

This kid has clear issues with attachment, they jump out a mile from your description.

Heaven help you if you are a young person with complex trauma issues that don't manifest in a clear and straightforward way that responds to SSRIs and telephone CBT.

Mumsnet is always useful in that it shows how a large swathe of people really regard others who have not managed to make it to adulthood with a particular set of emotional and practical skills. Skills that can only be learned with good enough parenting and adequate resources. Throw in trauma and you're immediately in danger of the emotional resources of a young person being depleted and drained.

Fuck me, the world is a brutal place at times.

Woman Many people with those exact issues are not living at home as home is the last place to be safe.
This adult is immature and used to manipulating his mum to have an easy life.
While this may not be a big deal at 20, it is easy for such men to get into drugs and spiral downwards.

Change router password; it will force him out to the real world as he tries to sniff out free WiFi (try to picture overfed, lumbering, pre-hibernating bear which will be even worse, once ensconced for another winter.

Said with firmly with tongue in cheek:

If he wants to act like a lazy brat, threaten to put him over your knee. If he asks why, tell him it's because he's acting like a spoiled brat.

This next bit is serious: you need to stop being a doormat. You have two men who are absolutely walking all over you. What are you doing to do about it?

@abacucat
"Many people with those exact issues are not living at home as home is the last place to be safe.
This adult is immature and used to manipulating his mum to have an easy life.
While this may not be a big deal at 20, it is easy for such men to get into drugs and spiral downwards."

Everyone is different. So what if others aren't living at home? Comparing one young adult to another is pointless. You have completely missed my point about resources being different for each individual. Everyone responds to trauma is different ways.

Quite frankly I think it is pretty telling that the OP moved her DP in in an abrupt manner. It doesn't sound like her son was prepared for this - it's a big deal to a teenager. That sort of relationship dynamic, between OP and the son, speaks volumes - on some level, he hasn't been able to take security and certainty in his family for granted.

That's leaving out all the unpredictability and uncertainty that comes with a relationship with an alcoholic dad.

This chap clearly feels, on some level, unable to cope with adult life. He's crying out for security and support. He's still young and I'd be optimistic that with good support, and probably therapy (not necessarily now, as a person has to be ready and able to engage) he will mature and grow up a bit. And lead a positive and productive life.

And yeah, he possibly IS being manipulative. Manipulation is simply a maladaptive mechanism to get needs met.

He has needs from childhood and adolescence that were not met. He quite literally was never given the tools to function as an adult, emotionally.

He needs to grow and develop into a man, but he's not there yet. Chucking him out to a shitty shared flat won't do anything except confound his abandonment issues. He needs loving support from his family - with boundaries firmly in place.

Woman Given that he is manipulating his mum just as his dad used to and possibly the new bf is, I would be more concerned that this pattern of manipulation will become entrenched and he will either stay at home and continue behaving like this, or find and move in with a woman who he treats like this.
There is far more going on here than simply immaturity and trauma.
And I do think OP you would benefit from doing Womens Aid Freedom Programme to help you identify and respond appropriately to men who try and manipulate and mistreat you.

He needs loving support from his family - with boundaries firmly in place.
Yes, helping him get a room in a shared house does not mean abandoning him you know. He can still get support. But the boundary is that you need to be financially supporting yourself, whether through a job or benefits. That is unlikely to happen while he is still living at home. He is 20 years old, not a little boy, so these are appropriate boundaries.

He sounds ill to me.

£30K in 4 months is a massive amount to spend. Are you 100% sure he's not doing coke?
I think you have to introduce some routine, so if he's not working he's volunteering. Not as easy as it sounds because most volunteer placements need you to attend regularly.
Sort out the hours he can access the internet.
And counselling for you both, but especially for him, should be a priority. Speak to your GP about this.

I’d be careful with changing the WiFi password if he had access to data, it’s very easy to hotspot your data to a TV or Xbox so he could run up a huge phone bill!!

Other than that, i’m mind blown he spent 30k in 4 months!!

I have to agree with @Lyinglow50
Your son has had an incredibly dysfunctional upbringing, and at the point he should have been healing and spending time with you in a stable home - you moved a man in! A man he hasn't got along with since. What kind of life has he had? What kind of role models?

Obviously you should never have moved him in, but when you realised it was a mistake you should have moved him out immediately and focused on your son. You have never, at any point prioritised your son and now you're surprised that he's at a loss with life.

I would tell your partner to move out, and insist to your son that for him to keep living there he must attend therapy.

I would like to say you made lots of bad decisions, at least you can admit that, maybe he's not ready to forgive you and thinks you need to be there for him now?
I am 26 and a twin to a boy. Our DM broke up with our dad when we were 3 months old, and got with a man who was an awful excuse for a human, he was an abusive alcoholic who would physically beat both of us (but not DM) they had 2 kids together who were verbally abused but he never laid a finger on them. We grew up poor as neither of them could hold onto a job and spend most the benefits on luxuries for themselves (fags and alcohol). We went to our dad's every weekend, who got with an abusive woman himself, they had 2 kids together. She said she hated me because my dad loved me more, and basically treated me like a skivvy on my visits and made me feel like I was i was only there to clean up their weekly messes. My dad has anger issues with but no actual violence really, but very intimidating.
Basically, a pretty shitty childhood for me and my brother constantly on egg shells and petrified of what insignificant event will set people off.
He is almost exactly as your son sounds, except has no contact with DM and has lived with our dad for 10 years. He has some mental health problems like depression and he's a bit of a compulsive liar. He had a few jobs to start with, but always quit, or was fired, or didn't turn up. He gave up even trying to get a job at 20yo. He now has spend the last 6 years on the dole, barely leaving the house. Hasn't got many friends, has had a few girlfriends who in my opinion were also in vulnerable situations but hasn't seen any one in years either. It is not a good life. He does take some drugs and resorted to stealing to get what he wants (I know that bit is different to your son) and a lot of family have cut contact with him including myself. We both blame our mother for what happened, she chose to let everything continue, and she chose to stay in a relationship with a mental and physical abuser to her children for years. I never once saw her try and stop him. Eventually he actually left her for another woman, you think she'd have been happy to finally have him gone. But she was so distraught she drank even more and for a long time spent all day drinking before us finishing school.
I still talk to her but she won't really let me discuss why she let it all happen and we just have to gloss over that part of our lives.
I think it depends what kind of person you are and what kind of personality. Abusive stepdad left when we were 10 but it clearly has had lasting effects for my brother, I have learned to hide it and try not to think about it.
I got a job at 18, moved out with DP at 19, got married to him at 21 and we have a gorgeous 13mo DS.
Some people find it harder to get over the bad things, and you did make some shitty mistakes and they have damaged and effected him, and I think you need to realise he is mainly of your making and parenting. I know you tried your best, but a shitty childhood with an abusive father/father figure can affect people for a long time, and just moving in some random chap while he was on holiday probably just showed him how much you value his thoughts and opinions as a family.
You've got a broken relationship and it's hardly surprising. And it's hard to respect someone who hasn't shown you any respect in protecting you over the years.

@JungWan agreed about 2 people living through the exact same experiences coming through it differently. See my above post.
My brother has severe depression and has attempted suicide several times. I have high anxiety, I am a people pleaser and I am scared of confrontation making me a door mat. I also have eating issues which is partly to do with the abuse I had as a child. I look very functional, but on the inside I'm pretty damaged too. But still not as bad as my brother.

The amount of people telling the OP to just dump her son because he's too much effort is actually infuriating. And telling her to just shake off the guilt. Clearly the son is struggling and needs emotional support as it doesn't sound like he's had lots before.

I don't think anything other than intensive therapy is going to help here OP, throwing him out is one option but since it's not his behaviour in the house that's the problem I'm not sure what that would achieve. You made some massive mistakes which have contributed to his entitled attitude, they need to be unravelled and worked through and then he needs absolutely railroading for his disgusting attitude towards you.

If he's worked through the issues from the past then he doesn't have an excuse for not moving forward and growing up. It seems like he wants to stay a child where he doesn't have to take responsibility for himself. He needs to be accountable for the £30k that he's spent on being an arsehole for the last few years, he could have used that for a house deposit but he made it so he can't, another excuse not to grow up.

Keep your patience, don't give in, and once his issues have been worked on with therapy use tough love to get the entitled brat out of your house. At present it's not really his fault, but at 20 years old I do question when he will actually have to take responsibility and be accountable for his own behaviour.

to be honest mum I don't want to listen to the advice of someone who's shoes I wouldn't want to be
Maybe everyone's taking it the wrong way and he doesn't want an abusive alcoholic partner who then he trades in for someone who doesn't help much with the bills and treats their kids crappy.

I am overinvested in this but I have seen how it's affected a few of us and it's not an easy life and telling people to "just get over" their parents life choices that in turn impacted their life for the worse isn't easy, especially when you're only 20.

Get him to apply for bar work on a cruise ship. He’d likely get the job easily, it would be exciting AND get him out of your hair. He’d make loads of money as he won’t spend a penny when at sea, and make loads of new friends.

Good idea luna!

How about trying to instill some confidence into him, get some training, get a job

But that is exactly what OP has been trying to do, and it's being thrown back into her face.

Once again - thanks so much for all your advice. It's so helpful to hear what total strangers have to say and to hear the stories of people in similar positions.I'm going to start with the kind but firm approach in the first instance with some deadlines and take it from there. I can see that I'm not doing anyone any favours with the status quo.
I'm also going to look into counselling, for me, and for him if he wants it.
I'll report back.

OP your 20 year old is not an adult - his brain is still rewiring. His behaviour alone tells you this. I've seen so many young men struggle at this age and that's young men without the challenges your ds has encountered, their self esteem is so incredibly low and they seem to spend their lives stuck in their bedrooms. You need to be firm but encouraging, I would not chuck him out but I would make him start earning his keep by helping out more around the house, not just a bit of his share.

Hi - just to answer a few qs re my current partner.
Sorry I can't @ them - they are buried in the thread somewhere.

I made a mistake moving in my current partner while my son was away, but he's a kind, hardworking man that my son already knew and liked that I thought would be the stability and constant, kind and thoughtful presence my son needed after the hell, and I do mean hell, of the final months with my ex. It was nearly two years between splitting up with my ex and my new partner moving in - that the kids already knew well.
At the time I was also still receiving bullying abuse from my alcoholic ex and was at times frightened of where that might lead.

My partner doesn't earn much, but he does contribute both financially and materially in many ways....and through lots of the absolute shit before my ex died, my current partner's presence and support allowed me to continue working to support my children (I never have/never did receive any support, either financially or otherwise from their dad after we split).
Also - I think I didn't explain my son's earlier years very well. Until two/three years before the split with my ex (when his drinking became constant) We had a very comfortable life. My ex was a high functioning alcoholic (at the time I saw it as heavy drinking - not the illness it really was) and he held down a very complicated job.
Looking back my parenting wasn't great all the time but I was a constant presence in my son's life, he was loved and - to my regret - spoiled - particularly by his dad who tried to make up for the lack of time he spent with him by buying him 'stuff'.
Finally - to those asking how he burned through £30k so quickly - well as a starter for 10 - six weeks holiday in luxury accomodation, designer clothes, eating out with his friends, taxis everywhere....it breaks my heart too and believe me I tried so hard to get him to invest it, give at least some of it to me for safe keeping.

OK...I'm going to take action - thanks again everyone..I've getting a plan together and taking the middle road through all your advice. Counselling I think will help.
I'll report back

You have done your best in very difficult circumstances. Clearly you have given him a lot of love and stability. You can do both here - be firm on the boundaries and routine which will help his self esteem and put in professional emotional support for you all to heal the wounds for the longer term. Watch out for your other child - just because they are not acting out it does nit mean they are not wounded inside. I am all for compassion and would look at your son as emotionally stuck - somewhere about 14 - but with consistent help this can be unblocked and he will flourish. It is great that he loves spending time with the three of you as a unit. Give him more of that to build him up.