20-year-old son doesn't want to grow up

[Loo18]

My 20-year-old son is clever, funny and can be kind and loving. However, he failed most of his GCSEs because he didn't turn up/revise and basically since then has done very little. He did a Duke of Edinburgh course when he was 16. He's had a few jobs in hospitality that he's left or been sacked from after a month or two because he fails to turn up/be on time/takes holidays and doesn't go back etc.

He lives at home and talks a good talk about setting up various businesses, getting interim jobs, making music -( he does do this).
He clearly craves my attention and loves nothing more than a day out with me and his younger sister (13-years-old). He has lots of friends and other people who meet him think he's funny and bright but just immature. People endlessly tell me to give him time.

I encourage him to look for work, have said I will support him (and pay for) him going back into education. However, he'd clearly prefer to play fortnite through the night in him room, sleep all day and then make encouraging noises about all the jobs he's applied for or interviews he's got but they rarely materialise if they existed at all.

Like his dad he knows how to emotionally manipulate me (I know he's doing it and it still ties me in knots) and often has very plausible reasons/excuses for not doing/doing something that once again means he's not working.

He received almost £30,000 from his dad;s estate earlier this year and spent it within four months (I asked his dad's family not to give it to him directly but they wouldn't listen).

He clearly can get jobs but can't/won't keep them and doesn't seem to understand that whatever his career choice in the future doing ANY job now is better than non from prospective employers point of view not to mention his own finances and self-esteem.

HOWEVER:
To set all this into context his dad was an emotionally abusive alcoholic and I didn't find the strength or have the resources to leave him until 7 years ago. He died a couple of years ago.

My daughter was born in 2005 and I now see my son felt abandoned not only by his dad (he had a poor relationship with my son and never spent any time with him just bought him lots of stuff) but also me, his mum.

Of course at the time I didn't see this and not a day goes by that I don't feel guilty for not only staying in such a dysfunctional relationship/bringing children into that relationship /not getting out and protecting the my son, and subsequently my daughter from it sooner.

The reality of living with an emotionally abusive partner and alcoholic also meant that I don't think I was the best parent. I'd also be over emotional and probably shouted at my son too much. I also hate myself for this too.

When I finally left that relationship - my son was then 13/14 - i soon met a lovely man (his daughter and my son were friends) who was understanding of mine and my kid's situ and caring.

I made a massive mistake of inviting him to move in with us while my son was on an extended holiday so when he came back, this new man (albeit one he had known for a couple of years) was in situ in our house.

Pair that with the typical troubled teen behaviour and several years of hate and interference of an alcoholic father in denial, and it was a toxic mix.

Fastforward to this year and my son and partner have a very on/off relationship. My son is still resentful that my partner is here doesn't hide that very well even when they are getting on. On the other hand my partner, unhindered by my guilt and motherly emotions, says I am allowing my son to get away with emotional manipulation and acting like a child when he should be embracing some aspects of adult-hood - ie getting a job and being thoughtful about the needs of others.

My son isn't inclined to listen much to him because the nature of my partners work means I am the chief breadwinner and my son says why should be listen to someone who isn't in his view fully paying his way.
My daughter has a good relationship with my partner but I see my son is trying to poison that too but emotionally manipulating her into believing he is the injured party. This really isn't true.
Sorry for the long post.
I don't even know what I'm asking tbh....I suppose I'm interested in thoughts and opinions from anyone who's been in a similar situ and if anyone can point me in the direction of professional help that will make me stronger to deal with my son's manipulation.
Unfortunately we live in London were rent is so high that simply paying a month's rent and deposit on a room for him and kicking him out isn't really an option - but all suggestions very gratefully received. This is the first time I've ever posted here - please be gentle.

How much weed is he smoking a week?

I know two men like this in their mid/late forties. Indulged and enabled by families and allowed to live at home. Both are alcoholics because work didn't get in the way of drinking/being hungover, neither are working now. One at 48 has never had a job, ever. The family money is gone and he faces a bleak future when his mother (nearly ninety) dies.

Did he use the £30K to pay for holidays? If that’s gone, what is he living on? I hope you aren’t paying for him to play on a computer all night and sleep during the day.

He needs to get a job, keep it and demonstrate that he has the capacity to be a responsible adult. Your guilt about his upbringing is stopping you from insisting that he grows up and pays his way. You’re actually not doing him any favours.

What on earth did he manage to spend £30000 on in such a short time?

I think you are making excuses for him because of guilt over how you perceive he has been treated by his DF and by you. In reality i think he is very lazy and taking advantage of you.

I agree you are going to have to get firm with him. Cutting off his access to wifi certainly sounds like a good start. If you are paying for his lifestyle i think you need to tell him they will only be provided if he can prove he has applied for jobs and is going to interviews. A bit like they do with benefits at the Job Centre. He has it too easy. Make him work for his lifestyle.

and my son says why should be listen to someone who isn't in his view fully paying his way.

Breathtaking hypocrisy

I'd set some rules and explain that if they are not met within 12 weeks you will be changing the locks.

Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts and advice so far.
Firstly, to answer some of your qs.

He bought and paid for his phone and the last vestiges of the money from his dad has paid the bills on it so far.

When he had the cash he did buy groceries and pay his way a little more, but the rest went on holidays, expensive clothes and nights out with his friends. Drugs are one of the very few things I don't worry about tbh...

I did try to support him into his own place when he had the cash, but had every excuse why it wasn't the right time. He actually went to Tenerife for six weeks because he wanted to work and live there for a year. However, that didn't work out - he failed to do his homework properly, despite me trying to explain about things like Spanish employment NI numbers etc..and needing to have one before you can work.

He doesn't pay now for food, internet, rent etc

I have sat down and spoken to him on an adult level on so many occasions, over coffee, lunch, breakfast etc. He has a knack of agreeing, saying he's getting his act together and making changes but not actually doing anything. He often makes all the right noises but nothing results from it. On other occasions he says things like 'to be honest mum I don't want to listen to the advice of someone who's shoes I wouldn't want to be'....I own my house and have always earned ok but he's dismissive because it's not enough to live a more lavish lifestyle. His objection to simply getting and keeping a waiters job (or any other job) for the time being is that it won't earn him loads of cash and is not what he wants to do in the future, therefore is a waste of time. He simply doesn't seem to be able to understand (or won't understand) that any job is merely a stepping stone to the next thing.

I've also tried talking to him like a child and giving him orders, circa him being 14..sometimes it works, sometimes not.

He can be lazy but generally helpful around the house - particularly when asked, does all his own washing, can cook and does sometimes prepare food for everyone....so that's not in itself an issue.

We haven't tried counselling but I have vaguely discussed but I think both of us are scared to re-open the wounds of the abuse we both suffered and its consequences.

My partners also thinks I should restrict internet access...am investigating the easiest way to do this as I'm self employed and work from home much of the time, making it vital to my income. I need to turn it off at night mainly.

Someone has before suggested I kick him out at 9am and don't let him back in til evening but that would be physically very difficult to do. I think I prefer to make the environment 'hostile' as some of your have suggested - ie no internet, his toiletries etc

And agree with everyone who said I need to let go of my guilt - if only it was that easy...
I really appreciate all your comments...it is helping me to work through what I need to do.

If he's immature it is because he hasn't had to go though the life experience to make him mature eg living on his own, holding down a job, doing housework, relationships. This will come with time but he does need to be put in these situations, not necessarily all at once. Housework is the one to star with. Outline your expectations, start him with a jobs list and progress onto him just knowing what needs to be done and doing it. Lots of housework (treat it like a job 9-5 unless he is at the kitchen table filling in job applications) will lead to him actively looking for a job. When he gets one he must still pull his weight around the house cooking for everyone a few nights a week, running errands, housework etc, don't let up and this will naturally lead onto him wanting his own place. If he wants that he needs to keep the job. If he looses the job back to square one, housework or job applications all day. He gets up at 7 no excuses and sets the table/ makes breakfast/ does some ironing etc) you can loan him out to your friends too, 'just pop around to Barbara's band put up some curtains/ go and mow Jenny's lawn), get them all on board so there's a never ending list. Show him you're serious. If he doesn't pull his finger out this is his life now. Enough is enough.

It's easy to say "chuck him out". He's OP's flesh and blood, and you always worry about them no matter how old they are. I'm in much the same situation. DS' father was an alcoholic and I split with him when Ds was 3. DS is now 40 and has been reliant on alchohol in the past, although much improved now. Still living at home, although he has lived away from time to time. Works occasionally, rarely pays any money in. Luckily he and dp have a good relationship, but what happens to Ds when I'm not here any more?

I would try the tough but fair approach others have suggested, but along with dialogue and supportiveness. Tell him something has to be done now because you are not going to tolerate this indefinitely until he ends up 39/48/whatever, jobless and still living with his mum - you don't want that and nor does he if he thinks about it. He wants a life, his own money and independence, but he's in a rut.

He has to work, he has to pay rent, and he has to do his share of chores, or he can't live with you. Longer term, he is moving out like others his age. You and he can discuss what steps he's going to take, but don't waver on the basics, and I agree boot him off the wifi until he takes action as well.

Yes he's had a shit time and he may benefit from seeing the GP / counselling too. Apologise to him for your mistakes but also point out he can't use his resentment as an excuse forever - as a PP said, plenty of people didn't have the best childhood, but they still have to get on with it.

He needs some self-respect and self-worth and while he's festering, he can't get it back.

And this is going to sound nuts but have you seen the TV show Queer Eye? They are always addressing issues like his and it can be very inspiring about developing self-respect and self-belief. I'd watch a few episodes with him!

PS: I don't give him cash. I have paid for travel to a couple of interviews that resulted in nothing (if he actually went/if they existed)..
He's just had a birthday so got cash from various family members, so he's back in business for a week or so.
Before he received the money from his dad and I was funding him getting to interviews and occasional nights out, he did pay all the money back when he got a job.

I wouldn't cut off his internet. Firstly your DP is suggesting it and there's a lot of negativity between him and your DS. Secondly, if your DS is to ever get his act together then the internet is useful for finding opportunities.
What I would do is help him make appointments where he can take control of his own development eg a counsellor; a business adviser; a careers adviser. If he's only valuing final salaries then he doesn't really understand how most people progress in the workplace so I would say he has to either have a job by the end of the month or have a volunteering role that is working towards a career path.

On other occasions he says things like 'to be honest mum I don't want to listen to the advice of someone who's shoes I wouldn't want to be'....I own my house and have always earned ok but he's dismissive because it's not enough to live a more lavish lifestyle

The cheeky fucker! I would chuck him out just for this!

Oh and if he wants a well-paid job in the future, the route to that is through getting his qualifications and a well-chosen degree (i.e. law, MBA, marketing, finance) - and working hard, committing to jobs and putting in the hours. Refusing to engage with the concept of a hard day's work does not lead to a lavish lifestyle. Spell out to him that people with well-paid jobs don't tend to doss about and play fornite all night for their wages - they slog. At least for the first few decades!

I suggest giving him a date (maybe 3 months away) by which had needs to move out. Fiddling around with toiletries and wifi and hoping he will take the hint are unlikely to achieve anything.

Working and supporting himself (even in rubbish jobs) will be amazingly useful in giving him a true understanding of the world. You might also make clear that you will support him in returning to study so he can get a better job in dud course, but I wouldn't do this while he is still refusing to engage with real life.

We haven't tried counselling but I have vaguely discussed but I think both of us are scared to re-open the wounds of the abuse we both suffered and its consequences.

Those wounds are wide open right now a bleeding you dry.

You all need counselling to deal with the very complex, multi layered issues you have all experienced and still carry.

You need to see that not giving him boundaries and structure is very negligent and will expose him to much more serious and intractable issues. You are lucky that your relationship is still amiable - this might not last and you will then lose total control. Get some counselling yourself so that you can put down the guilt and find the strength and clarity to be a strong parent.

You are very lucky that at this point he has not got into drugs, debt, bad crowd or is depressed.

I'd change the wifi password every day, give everyone else the code, and give him the code when he's spent the day at work/looking for work. He can have wifi for a few hours every evening which is enough to find and apply for jobs and do a bit of gaming to relax. Then at midnight or whatever change it again for the next day.

If he doesn't like it, remind him he gets to have it on all day in the new place of his own he'll be able to get.

Hi - he's not a regular weed smoker or drug taker, he's only out of the house probably once a week at most. He may drink, smoke or pop some kind of recreational drug on a big night out (I'm not naive) but none of this ever happens at home. He knows I have a zero tolerance on drugs and his feet wouldn't touch the ground if I even suspected he was smoking or taking any other drugs at home. I know the signs to look for so this isn't a factor..but yes, appreciate why you might ask.

I agree with pp, you need to make life without work very difficult for him. I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to kick him out, but you can do the bare minimum for him. Do not do his laundry, don't cook for him, but provide him with food to cook. Give him no money, but a bus pass to look for work. No WiFi, new clothes etc. At 20 he can understand that nothing is free. Let him know that in 6 months time you will be charging a small amount of rent, and stick to it.

You're doing him no favours by letting him remain a child.

I'm 21 years old. My father also was (and still is) an emotionally abusive alcoholic. I have young siblings with significant life-limiting disability and spent much of my childhood as a Young Carer. My parents had a massively traumatic split 3 years ago in the midst of my exams. I also certainly did not receive 30k and have self-funded myself through University on a very scarce bursary.

I also achieved 10A*/A at GCSE, A Levels and now in my final year of nursing training at University, as well as extra-curricular involvement in NHS policy making.

You can deal with what life throws at you by letting it motivate you, or you use it as a sob-story to avoid responsibility whilst everybody feels sorry for you. Get tough - it will be exactly what your son needs, even if he fights against it. I know it's hard, but it'll be so worth it and he'll gain improved mental health and self-worth.

@whatifmaybe, that is true but it's not like you flick a switch marked ''motivated''. The same childhood experiences can wound one person and not another. I'm reading a book about childhood emotional neglect atm and it's very interesting and the last section is about parenting. There is also advice about relationships with partner and parenting. The relationship with our children is the one we have the most responsibility to get right of course.

I have no advice but my brother still lives like your son at 39. He lives with my Dad, plays computer games through the night and struggles to keep a job for more than a few weeks.

I don't see change happening. My Dad is in his early 70s.

On other occasions he says things like 'to be honest mum I don't want to listen to the advice of someone who's shoes I wouldn't want to be'

What? You mean he wouldn't want to be you? What a cheeky little fucker. Only....he IS living the same life as you, without earning a salary or owning a home. He's sponging off you, and then being rude to your face. I'm actually gob smacked at how disrespectful he is being.

FGS, stop letting previous guilt make you in to a doormat here.

I have a 19 year old, that's just gone into 3rd year at Uni, and a 21 year old in 4th year. Working like bastards they are. And I have guilt, as me and their Dad are split. That does not give them (or your son) to give up on life and be a monumental sponger.

Honestly, tell him he HAS to get a job. It's non-negotiable.

Regards your Partner, are you saying he's cocklodging as well?

@nomad86 I agree with this approach. Kindly with love withdraw the free perks of living at home but provide bus pass.

On other occasions he says things like 'to be honest mum I don't want to listen to the advice of someone who's shoes I wouldn't want to be'....I own my house and have always earned ok but he's dismissive because it's not enough to live a more lavish lifestyle.

And what was your response to that.

Because mine would be to provide only what he has contributed to. So if he isn't paying rent, no toiletries, only basic food, no snacks and luxuries etc.

I would be showing him exactly what lifestyle his income affords him. Show him what life on benefits is like.

I don't think he is immature. I think he is arrogant. He thinks he is entitled to a lavish life style.

I am a single parent. I earn good money and have a good standard of living. I don't have much education, had a poor upbringing with a mum with MH and alcohol problems. I have worked as a waitress, receptionist, behind a bar. I got where I did through hard work and a bit of luck (ie being lucky enough that people spotted me and help my career progress). I worked and saved from being 16. O never cared if a job gave me a lavish lifestyle, I cared that it earned enough to cover my living costs. I could always work my way up or keep looking for something better paid.

The older he gets without having a decent education, or a good career history for his CV, the less likely his lavish lifestyle is.

You need to toughen up and drop making excuses. This isn't immaturity.

I would send him to the Job Centre if he wants to stay in the house. I can get his perspective as a 20-something myself, but I also have the reasoning of disability as to why I'm unable to move out and I'm pretty much stuck here.

He needs to go to the centre and then give you a certain % of the money towards bills and household expenses. The rest can pay for his phone etc.