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Original poster

To be heartened to see so many European flags...

295 replies

Sarahlou63 · 08/09/2018 22:46

at the Last Night of the Proms? Love the music and general English nuttiness of the concert but really pleased to see so many European flags and hats.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2018 18:10

Helmetbymidnight

Which is wrong?

All of it
None of it.

You decide, I really CBA.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 18:13

Yup, welcome to the world of being ignored in politics.

That suggests that I know what it feels like NOT to be ignored in politics.

The uneducated white working class from Boston, Scunthorpe and Dudley don't have a monopoly on being ignored in politics, you know.

maybe that you don't care what they think is another reason not to engage?

I don't care what they think (and to be honest it's a stretch to describe what is going on in their heads as "thinking") but I do care what impact it has on me.

Gersemi · 11/09/2018 18:14

It's such a cop out to say in effect "There are clear benefits to Brexit that outweigh the obvious disadvantages, but I refuse to say what they are in case the remainers are nasty to me." And in my experience, what actually happens is that what leavers perceive as remainers being nasty is in fact being asked legitimate questions based on the available evidence.

In other contexts, if I had a tenner every time I've seen a Leaver in that situation retreat into "It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it", I'd be rich enough not to worry about Brexit.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/09/2018 18:15

Um I thought so Grin

Yeah I think you know your benefits to Brexit don’t stand up to proper scrutiny but rather than debate them properly you’d rather pretend that remainers spew vitriol at you.

Gersemi · 11/09/2018 18:16

maybe that you don't care what they think is another reason not to engage?

I do care what they think, and in particular what facts they base their thoughts on. If they are firmly based in verifiable facts, I may well come round to their way of thinking and feel much better.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2018 18:19

Gersemi

I haven't said that there are clear "benefits to brexit", I have pointed out why brexiteers don't engage.

Some leave posters have been very eloquent in asking questions and done so in non confrontational ways. Others not so much

"I dunno why fascists" as the start of a sentence would be an example.

BertrandRussell · 11/09/2018 18:21

"Bertrand

Try Andrew O`Hagan."

I just had a look- couldn't find much Brexit stuff. Am I looking in the wrong place?

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2018 18:21

Helmetbymidnight
Um I thought so grin

I'm not so convinced that you "thought" about anything and I am happy to leave you to your preconceived ideas.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/09/2018 18:25

I haven't said that there are clear "benefits to brexit

Even brexiteers don’t think there are clear benefits anymore.
Confused

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 18:27

I haven't said that there are clear "benefits to brexit"

So why the fuckety fuck are we going through with this nonsense?

Why can't parliament grow some fucking backbone and put a stop to it?

BertrandRussell · 11/09/2018 18:32

"Some leave posters have been very eloquent in asking questions and done so in non confrontational ways. Others not so much "

It doesn't matter- we don't get any replies however we ask.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2018 18:32

Helmetbymidnight

Preconceived Ideas.

I never said that I was a brexiteer.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2018 18:33

EthelThePiratesDaughter

So why the fuckety fuck are we going through with this nonsense?

Why can't parliament grow some fucking backbone and put a stop to it?

If I were to put an opinion out there for this it would be that they see way for themselves to benefit from it.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/09/2018 18:33

Yeah, no one voted leave anymore.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 18:36

If I were to put an opinion out there for this it would be that they see way for themselves to benefit from it.

It's because they're shit scared.

But no one is going to thank them for not stopping this in the longer term.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2018 18:36

BertrandRussell
It doesn't matter- we don't get any replies however we ask.

And its a shame that no real discourse can take place.

But after first couple of months of being slated, people stopped trying to get there point across. And it was vile, even though various posters would like to change the history of this.

Confusedbeetle · 11/09/2018 18:37

Actually, I was sad about it. It seemed to be reviving the discord. Last year the flag selling seemed to whip it up. It seemed the programme helped. There is nothing dignified about giving the finger to Leavers, quite the contrary. When will people realise that we love Europe, I repeat love Europe. Europe is not the EU and the EU is not Europe. Five-year-olds can understand this. JAIMS why do you want to piss off the neighbours? This attitude is part of the problem. We teach our children to agree to differ. Since Brexit, the slanging matches have been more than pathetic and childish. Whatever happens, we need to pull together. This sort of slanging is the reason the govt is making such a hash of it. My friends in Europe are not aghast at Brexit, they are aghast at the in fighting.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 18:41

There is nothing dignified about giving the finger to Leavers, quite the contrary.

There is nothing dignified about any of this Brexit mess, flags or no flags.

Since Brexit, the slanging matches have been more than pathetic and childish. Whatever happens, we need to pull together.

Why would I want to "pull together" with the Machiavellian architects of Brexit who are hell bent on destroying the country for their own selfish motives, or the ignorant and ill-informed voters they are using for said purposes?

This sort of slanging is the reason the govt is making such a hash of it.

No. The government is making a hash of it because the government is fucking incompetent, and also because you can't polish a turd. And Brexit is an epic, steaming turd of an idea.

Confusedbeetle · 11/09/2018 18:43

Ethel the pirate's daughter, your comments are unhelpful at the least and offensive in the extreme. Bad news for you, extreme and horrible far right is becoming mighty powerful all over Europe and now even liberal Sweden is going scarily mad. I don't think you can blame Brexit for this wave of extreme politics. The whole of Europe is having a rocky ride. Engage in European news websites for a broader view than the Guardian will give you

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 18:48

I don't read the Guardian. In fact I get most of my news from French language channels these days, living as I do in continental Europe.

Thanks for Europe-splaining that to me though. Much appreciated.

I don't care if you find my comments offensive. Tell us what benefits Brexit will bring which will outweigh the significant and obvious downsides, and I will happily listen.

Otherwise, I couldn't care less about offending you.

Cobblersandhogwash · 11/09/2018 18:51

@BoneyBackJefferson Leavers weren't slated. Their arguments were torn to shreds for being total cack. Then they were slated for clinging onto total cack.

Just like Brexit.

Can't wait to see the ERG plan. Oh wait, they're not releasing it because they know it's total cack and will be shredded for that reason.

Morethanthisprovincallife · 11/09/2018 18:52

Mumsnet on brexit has been diabolical.

Leavers have had no space to chat about it, every time one has declared themselves one, pounced on for answers.

Answers. Legions of brexiteers have tried to engage, answer and many renainers have had good discussions with them.

But mumsnet has been dominated by some very bearish posters who go on and on round in circles over the the same crap.
People gave up.

I personally could argue just as much for remaining in the eu as coming out of it. If the vote had gone the other way it would have been OK for me.

I consider myself lucky that I am able to look at most sides of a situation and understand it.
I know many posters on many topics lack that skill and are firmly entrenched in one view. Usually for selfish personal reasons.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 18:57

Morethanthisprovincallife

I agree Mumsnet has been diabolical, but not in the way you seem to think.

Prior to the referendum, when it actually mattered, the board was overrun by pro leave posters, some of whom I suspect were actually being paid (judging by their style and volume of posting and the fact that they disappeared the moment the referendum was over instead of staying to gloat). These posters were incredibly goady and deliberately trying to wind remain supporters up. When remain supporters inevitably snapped back at them, they were reported to MNHQ, their posts were deleted and some users found that their MN logins just mysteriously stopped working. Oddly enough, the goady and insulting posts from the pro leave posters were never deleted.

Other people may have got a bit more worked up about this since the referendum, but by that point it was too late to change the result. (Easier to call out the bollocks like "£350m a week for the NHS", but too late to change the result.)

Morethanthisprovincallife · 11/09/2018 19:36

Ethel.

Off the top of my head I can think of one prolific leave poster. Your really giving one propaganda view there. Very narrow.

What mn did or didn't vote would hardly have swung brexit. Its just an interesting snap shot of opinion.

And three posters for remain who just flood every single thread about brexit. One was banned thankfully.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 11/09/2018 19:41

Off the top of my head I can think of one prolific leave poster.

That is neither here nor there, since I was referring to the prolific paid trolls leave posters who spammed every thread about Brexit before the referendum and then disappeared as soon as their work here was done.