Nanny brought her family over whilst we’re on holiday

[Vanessatiger]

AIBU to sack her

Background to this: nanny started with us in May, we went away the whole of August. Meanwhile we agreed she’d look after the house together with the housekeeper. They’d alternate 2+2 weeks. Feed the dog etc. we found out that the nanny had not fed the dog (left it to the gardener) and she never came once to dust the house. Instead she brought her two children and her husband to have a “party” at ours. Eating, drinking, using our livingroom and the children played with our children’s toys. I think it would’ve be fine if she had asked but she didn’t. I only found out because I asked the landlord to go and fix a few broken things in the house. He said he was surprised to find our nanny and her family there using our house but asked if that was pre-arranged.

When we came back, we asked the nanny and her attitude was “nothing was damaged and taken so no big deal, they just used the house to lounge around”... i reckon they live in a smaller space so it’s nice to use our big house, but i find it quite disrespectful.
The problem is our 1,5 yr old likes her a lot. And in general she’s very good with children.

We are expats where nannies are readily available at a fraction of the costs in the UK.

What would you do?

Quizzley. She said the whole culture is lazy. Sounds pretty racist to me, she’s just trying to disguise it somewhat.

I’ve reported the OP anyway so hopefully MNHQ can help us out.

I’m a nanny and there is no way I would ever be so disrespectful

That’s definitely not acceptable behaviour

The trust is gone.

You can't trust her to even feed a dog, how can you trust her to look after children?

I’d sack her for the dog. But I imGine it happened like that because the gardener started off feeding the dog and then she just decided it must be his responsibility after that.

But using your house - not such a big deal. She’s obviously proud of where her employer lives and proud of where she works.

Just for the record NON I was a nanny for 14 yrs + and my property had the exact same floorplan & square footage as the family I was employed by.

Please do not be so assuming.

OP - she can’t be trusted.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter what race you are. If you are paid to do a job then you do it. I'm not sure why people are implying that the OP is lazy, because she is employing people for doing what are considered as being "mum jobs"... As long as someone is being fairly paid to do the job, I'm not sure what the problem is.

I had a career that could have involved a lot of overseas postings and slightly changed my focus within it so I didn't have to do them, largely to avoid having to hang out with a lot of the ex-pat families - it can really skew people's perspectives, and I think that's whats happening here.

You end up in a ridiculously privileged position, often within a very hierarchical social structure, where you view the local 'rules' as not applying to you, and see yourselves as superior because you apply western standards to things like employment. Except, while you may pay more, and require shorter hours, you also require adherence to rules which are not the norm where you are.

Re: the dog - is it a culture where people are afraid of dogs? I've worked v few places where dogs are seen as pets outside of Europe/America/Australia. It wasn't actually left to starve, the gardener fed it, and its possible she really didn't want to have anything to do with it and is used to seeing them as working animals or guard dogs. Once she made sure it was fed, it doesn't seem to make that much difference who fed it.

Re: having her family in your house - again, I wouldn't be a fan. But it depends a lot on what is culturally normal. We used to have a housekeeper who would bring her kids along, its not like she had other childcare options. Fine to strongly tell her its not ok. Excessive to fire her and essentially blacklist her if this is her only failing.

All the 'everyone is lazy' stuff- really, please consider leaving your current posting when you can, and I don't say that lightly. In my experience when people start to make sweeping derogatory statements about where they're posted its a sign the malaise is setting in. It will either turn you bitter, or make you hate your life. I worked in a country with a much more laid-back approach to efficiency, I spent a really interesting time with an anthropologist who had studied the traditional culture there are was convinced that there's was a much more rational approach to life than the UK. Nobody was paid high amounts, things got done in the end but there was a genuine in-built sense that stressing yourself out for employment more that you had to was a waste of time once your basic needs were met and you could spend time with your family. But of course many ex-pats liked to sit in four star hotels drinking cocktails talking dismissively about how the reason there was widespread poverty was because everyone was so culturally lazy and wouldn't learn the right way to get ahead.

Most of these answers are people making assumptions based on employing British nannies and British standards. Being somewhere like you describe, I would warn and give another chance. And maybe examine a bit more closely whats happening to your perspectives.

@Fanwithoutaguard I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.

I live in a country where having staff (other than a fortnightly cleaner) is quite shocking, very little understood, and open to only the top 3% of rich people. Even those rich people play it down, and tie themselves in knots trying to publically justify how egalitarian and necessary it is.

My family live in another country, where you barely have to crack ‘upper middle class’ to routinely have 2 or 3 staff, one practically live-in.

I’ve learned that there is no point explaining one culture to the other. None at all. ‘No staff’ cultures will never accept or understand that giving people jobs is preferable to doing your own ironing in some kind of egalitarian protest (that nobody notices or cares about).

That said, my ‘having staff is normal’ family would advise you (OP) to give up this nanny, pronto and with true regret. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. No one has to be labelled a monster in this scenario (and hundreds like it). Not her for ‘pushing it’, not you for firing her.

You have to fire her because you caught her. Not because she did it. Catching her in lies but keeping her on sets a precedent about lying. A precedent she won’t be able to resist pushing further, and you won’t be able to resist checking up on. She’s employed to take stress and work off your plate for a fee. If she keeps taking her fee, but has now given you extra work (worry, supervision, new policies, Plan B for the dog, etc) then the deal has changed irrevocably. And has no value.

Trust me that had you been less concerned with being nice, ‘rich person guilt’ and treating her as family, she would not have contravened the unwritten rules, and she’d now still have a safe job.

Create some distance with your next nanny, for both your sakes. It’s not at all easy to achieve, but ‘when in rome’ actually tends to work better than we assume.

Sounds like your equally lazy then because you can’t be bothered to cook, clean tend to the garden or look after your kids?

Yeah cos nobody in uk enploys any of the above when they are working!🤔🤔🤔

Christ its the standard reply on mn if the oh isnt pulling thier weight "Get a cleaner. Why should you work ful time and do all the cleaning too.?"

Could you not issue a written warning?
Also maybe set some more ground rules/ Expectations.

you sound like you think you are superior and she has forgotten her place.
Im not saying that she should be let off, but you seem to be badmouthing the entire country, the locals, the culture, and speaking about them like shit on your shoe. It does not sit comfortably with me at all. You sound like a fucking colonialist. Gross.

reddressblueshoes, totally agree and much better put than me (my back was up!).

I’ve reported the OP anyway so hopefully MNHQ can help us out.

Oh, for flip's sake!

I think that it doesn't sound as bad as you portray.

1. shes hired as your nanny. A nanny cares solely for children, and does child-related housework ie child's laundry and organising toys

2. therefore to assume she will come in and housekeep and sort dog is a bit wrong, shes a nanny. not a cleaner or dog sitter.

3. she didnt leave dog to starve, the gardener did it

4. if the gardener fed the dog daily, surely he was there more than once in the month ?

5. yes she may have invited family in, but you say this is normal wherever you are, plus nothing was left broken or untidy. does it matter if toys played with, if then tidied after? if its normal she must have assumed it was ok (maybe party a bit ott but hey)

I would just chalk this up as a lack of clarity from each side. Next time be clear. Only get her to do child related things whilst you are away, surely she can do all childs leftover laundry, batch cook, and toy sorting etc within a few days maximum. Say no family allowed. And book a proper dog sitter whos job is focused on feeding and walking dog.

For gardener do the same, leave a list says please can you do a,b,c the first week, xyz the second etc. So theres little misunderstanding.

I imGine it happened like that because the gardener started off feeding the dog and then she just decided it must be his responsibility after that.

If the gardener didn't even bother to cut the grass, I doubt he would be looking for extra work in the form of feeding the dog. I can only assume he felt sorry for it, or didn't want to have to explain a missing pet and a newly dug grave in the back garden.

As for describing a culture as being "lazy" - I don't think it's racist - more a bad choice of words. If OP had describe them as having a "relaxed attitude" to fulfilling their obligations, no-one would have thought anything of it - a mañana attitude if you will. And some cultures are like that, and can't understand our western obsession with breaking our necks to do things quickly if they aren't life-threatening. I don't myself.

But if I was being paid to do something, I would do it, and if I was paying someone to do something, I would expect it to be done. I don't think that's unreasonable.

sack her.

@LizzieSiddal
You've reported the OP? Wow.

The OP clearly states that she is the same race as those in the country she lives in and by now I assume that she's fairly familiar with the cultural norms.

I had an Italian friend living in the UK who would cheerfully tell anyone who'd listen that Italy was a very corrupt country and that the men were in general slow to take no for an answer. Was she racist? Or did she simply recognise the overall cultural shortcomings of her own place of birth?

There's plenty we could say about people in the UK (and frequently want to!) - that wouldn't make us racist, just not oblivious.

to assume she will come in and housekeep and sort dog is a bit wrong, shes a nanny. not a cleaner or dog sitter.

It's normal in expat communities where the whole family goes away for the summer and the nanny gets a very extended paid holiday for her to come in a little and do things like this. It's the quid pro quo for getting the summer off work on full pay.

I think you're doing the right thing in giving her a warning.

If she's supposed to house sit, I wouldn't begrudge her taking her family with her to enjoy the house.

My deal breaker would have been the dog, though. Was she sure the gardener would feed it?
Are you sure you were clear with her that she was supposed to feed the dog?

Next time, outline very clear a couple of things she must or mustn't do and that will be deal breakers.

It's England innit. They're lazy as hell there them Brits

Only on MN! The housekeeper, the gardener and the nanny but they're all lazy fuckers.

Sack the lot of them and do it yourself OP, that way you can be 100% sure of who is doing what and that no one is being lazy!

I’ve reported the OP anyway so hopefully MNHQ can help us out

Honestly, it's like dealing with children sometimes on here. You told on the OP, do you feel better now?

Picklepost.... true!

Post Brexit Britain, we'll be the cheap labour bought in to work for expats... or 'migrants' as we call them.

I think I explained it poorly. She was tasked to clean the children’s toys and iron the children’s clothes and share the light cleaning with the housekeeper. Where we are houses are built quite openly so if you don’t dust the house in one week it gets a thick layer of dust everywhere even if you have closed all the doors properly.

So she was supposed to take two weeks off, then the housekeeper would get two weeks off. It’s always us feeding the dog not the gardener, the nanny only asked the gardener to do it because in their mind he’s lower ranked and will not object.
I asked the nanny to feed the dog so as to check on the house at the same time. Houses here get a lot more weathered than in the UK. Your roof could cave in during rainy season or there might be a leakage (happened before when we’ve been away). I trusted the housekeeper to keep the key for two weeks and then the nanny to keep the key for two weeks. Unfortunately they didn’t bother checking on the house, all the fish died, plants got dried out, dust everywhere , there was a small leakage. But they did use the house on occasions it seems to “party” and no it was sadly not cleaned up properly as I found wraps under the couches and crumbs on the floor.

I’m sorry you think I’m colonialist, that’s the last thing I’d describe myself. Yes clumsy use of words, they are much more laid-back obviously.. and often take little responsibility towards other people sadly. It caused me a lot of stress but for them it’s a shrug of the shoulder and that’s it.

I know many people from a country not dissimilar to what the OP describes. It sounds very factual to me.
Many people are doers and disparage of the "culture", but just learn to deal with it, as the OP is doing. Others, however, do expect things to be done for them and do not want to put the effort in, even though they expect the rewards.