Why do parents of year 7 children do this?

[GuavaPalava]

So my DS has started secondary school this week. Prior to starting, we of course had parents evening, literature, uniform rules - it was made very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't

I was added to a 'new starters in year 7' FB group for my area a few months back and it's been used to ask the usual questions you may expect - apart from this week. It's all kicked off with the following ..

A parent in a fury as in day 1 she received a call saying her son's hair was not acceptable. Cue obligatory pic and he's got a half shaved head and tramlines

Another parent going mad as he DD had pink hair over the summer which she 'bleached out apart from the back' - she can't believe she's been told it needs to be sorted

And another moaning because she received a call about her DD wearing make up

All saying what you'd expect - it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to learn. And yeah, they're right - I get that

But why would you do this? You know the guidelines as a parent and they're very clear . AIBU to say that, knowing these rules, it's your child you immediately single out in a new school by sending him/her in with tram lines hair, pink hair and make up?

In countries where school uniform doesn't exist, the students know very precisely who has money and who doesn't. School uniform, enforced, makes everyone equal

Bollocks.

Even from Primary school, in which we wore uniform, I knew who had money and who didn't. The ones with money walked towards the 'posh' houses, the ones who didn't walked the same way as me.

Later in secondary it became more obvious even though the uniform was more prescriptive.

Kids don't need to know who has the latest Adidas tracksuit to know who has money. It's obvious even in uniform.

@Frequency

When you're trying to shift the colour, I wonder if you or your child get anxious in case it doesn't shift and she's faced with a possible detention going in? (I say this as a parent with an anxious child.)

Frequency , I can see why having your child's hair coloured might make her feel happier and more confident but what happens when she's in trouble for coloured hair? That won't be doing anything for her self esteem surely? Can't you just keep it to holidays or is that too simple a solution? Genuine question

Inevitably with this subject you get the usual argument that hair/shoes etc do not affect learning and this is of course true.

However, we live in a world where rules apply and workplaces often impose dress codes. These vary wildly. Strict uniform in industries like aviation etc. Lax non existent dress codes. Full safety equipment like in the fire service. Sterile clothing in some hospital roles. The list goes on and on and covers the whole spectrum.

The point of teaching children to adhere to a school dress code is to teach them that the rules apply to them too. That we don’t live in a world where you can say ‘it’s not fair’ and get your own way. Where sometimes you have to dress the way your boss tells you.

These parents raising kids who think that the rules of any society don’t apply to them are raising entitled brats who will get a huge shock when the world doesn’t bow down to what they want. By all means fight to change rules that aren’t fair through the proper channels. But breakinb set rules and moaning that ‘it’s not fair’ with a sad face is not the way to go
Fabulous post here ^
That's it in a nutshell.
People don't follow clear simple rules because:
A. They are dumb.
Or
B. They seem to think the rules don't apply to them and their offspring/ their darlings should only follow rules they like

Some parents appear to be spoiling for an argument or something to moan about with the school. Uniform rules are pretty straight forward and not that difficult to follow..

When you're trying to shift the colour, I wonder if you or your child get anxious in case it doesn't shift and she's faced with a possible detention going in

No, she doesn't. I do.

I got very anxious this time because she used blue Directions 10 fucking days before the term started. Anyone who knows fashion colours knows why this is a bad thing. She looked like a sodding Smurf the night before term started.

She thought it was hilarious and assured me she would be perfectly happy in isolation or being excluded because the other kids are what causes her anxiety in the first place

Even bleach didn't shift it. It just made it green. Luckily, I managed to get most of it out with out with an ammonia based toner. There are a few fetching mint green strands left behind but she appears to have escaped the teachers attention thus far. I did offer to tone this out with a light strawberry blonde colour but she refused. She also won't let me tone her from yellow-blonde to a nice ash shade because yellow is 'at least a little bit different' and 'the bitchy girls have ash blonde hair. I want yellow or white'

I did warn her not use blue. I did warn her not to use Directions. I even hid my supply of Directions colours. She raked an old one I missed out of the back of my supply cupboard. She had plenty of nice pastel shades to chose from but opted for Smurf fucking blue.

Guava, we try to (or rather I try to stick to shades which will fade before school) but shifting fashion colours from bleached hair isn't easy. Shifting blue Directions ten days after you put it in is simply impossible.

The thing is, secondary school, in part, is to prepare your child for the adult world and employment. It's teaching you key life attributes such as punctuality, attendance, following rules and procedures and following instructions. Part of that will be you have to wear a uniform and conform to the school rules in the same way you would start a job and follow their company procedures with appearance and uniform.

There are plenty of jobs where people are individuals with crazy make up, certain dress sense and crazy hair. But there are also jobs where you have to wear a uniform and conform to that.

I have been an employee and an employer and seen more people I care to mention who don't think the uniform applies to them. They've been getting away with it for so long then they enter employment and it's a shock to them that they have to wear the correct uniform, or cannot have visible piercings or wear jewellery. You then get attitude or they wait until management disappear or hope no one will be brave enough to say anything.

They are a pain in the ass in the work place when they have that attitude and don't usually last long.

Some people go on from school and get jobs where their individual style is acceptable in the field they work in which is great. But others go on into work places where they do have to follow the uniform rules but don't have the best attitude and aren't used to people saying no you cannot wear that.

You aren't doing your child any favours!

Some parents appear to be spoiling for an argument or something to moan about with the school. Uniform rules are pretty straight forward and not that difficult to follow..

I think this is it!
Their inner rebellious child is spoiling for the fight they were impotent to win as a teenager.

I don't actually think that they believe the rules don't apply to them. They know the rules. They know that they apply to everyone. But by heck, they love a good Facebook rant if they manage to convince themselves that there's even a shred of argument against whatever they are whinging about. Cue all the huns who come along to back them up and it fuels the fire and gives them constant feedback and justification. Cue steam coming out of ears, many swearing emojis, a phone call to the local press, a letter to OFSTED to shut the school down and get everyone fired blah blah blah blah. It's all very exciting for them and they feel that they are achieving something.

Unfortunately, some parents have nothing to do day to day other than browse social media and make up new ways to be offended about anything and everything. It's actually really sad.

I think it's partly because there are always loads of rules that no one follows, so you wait and see which ones are actually rules and which ones are just written there. That's part of learning to navigate life, is learning that.

"I don't actually think that they believe the rules don't apply to them. They know the rules. They know that they apply to everyone. But by heck, they love a good Facebook rant if they manage to convince themselves that there's even a shred of argument against whatever they are whinging about. Cue all the huns who come along to back them up and it fuels the fire and gives them constant feedback and justification. Cue steam coming out of ears, many swearing emojis, a phone call to the local press, a letter to OFSTED to shut the school down and get everyone fired blah blah blah blah. It's all very exciting for them and they feel that they are achieving something.

Unfortunately, some parents have nothing to do day to day other than browse social media and make up new ways to be offended about anything and everything. It's actually really sad."

Indeed it appears that way. The Facebook ranting type searching for the likes. Sad isn't it.

I work supply. I am not easily stressed out by kids and go with the flow. Without a shadow of a doubt, the good schools - where learning takes place every minute of every lesson, where everyone knows what’s expected of them, where pass rates are high and where, by default, everyone wants their little darlings to attend - are the ones that enforce the stupid rules like not having tramlines or pink hair or make up and are prepared to have a Mexican stand off if you are wearing the wrong shoes. The schools where the view that tramlines, pink hair and make up ‘have no impact on learning’ are the ones you would prefer to avoid and which have poor results and even poorer reputations.

If the schools can manage the small shit, the bigger - and most important shit - takes care of itself.

Dd goes to a school that insists most items come from one independent uniform shop that can charge what it likes. Excluding shoes trainers and a coat with no logos (very insistent) stationary and lunch bag we paid £330. This is not unusual for many schools in my area. She was going to a different school but the uniform would have cost about the same.

Having said all that, I am in favour. All the students look the same. Long hair is tied up or plaited, no colours. No nail varnish, no make up, no fake eyelashes etc. No phones allowed to be used on school property. (They must be kept in students bags). Only a wristwatch is allowed and stud earrings for jewellery. It reduces bullying. My daughter can be herself outside school and when she gets to Year 12. But in school, she must adhere to the rules. All parents were told what to expect before our daughters (it’s an all-girls school) started there, and that’s fine by me. There were no surprises at all.

YANBU OP. We had this too. A very clear uniform policy but still some parents decide it doesn’t apply to them, and then when their child gets spoken to by the teacher they are all up in arms about it... I just don’t understand why you’d want your child to be singled out on their first day in a new school!

The reason I like strict uniforms for secondary is as others have mentioned above - otherwise it becomes all about the labels / clothes brands and is another thing for children to bully each other about. (Speaking from experience of my DD being teased for having the ‘wrong’ brand of trainers)

Their inner rebellious child is spoiling for the fight they were impotent to win as a teenager.
Yes.
Even better if they can try to pretend that openly enabling defiance is part of some undercover plan to take down 'the establishment' because the teachers need to stop thinking they are Gods... and anyway, they don't believe in 'blind obedience and compliance' so when their child starts getting mouthy and disrupting learning instead of following a simple rule, they'll claim that teacher disrupted their own lesson by arguing with their darling.
raising entitled offspring who seem to confuse defiance with reasonably raising issues. Sadly they havent been taught how to do the latter well because home are still trying to win some battle in their head from when they were 14

@Frequency

Ah I see. Sounds like you have a lot more going on than just a "not following uniform" problem. 10 says before school and laughing about it sounds like a deliberate act of rebellion rather than anxiety over following uniform rules, which was what I though you meant.

"Discipline is what other people's children need". Remember this and you won't go far wrong!

Xing - I used to think that.

I’ve changed my mind.

Ds went to wealthy middle class London school no uniform in infants. Kids dressed scruffily. Uniform in juniors but relaxed and kids scruffy but educational attainment excellent.

Ds now in SE Essex, by the sea In ‘posh’ part. Kids dressed head to toe in anything they can grab from JD Sport.

Absolute eye opener and ds school has strict uniform policy and hair cut policy,

I don’t like uniforms. What 12 year old needs shirt and tie? I haven’t dressed up for work for many years, so why truss up kids?

Kids on continent wear jeans/leggings and long shirts. They look smart casual.

I’d like the same here but only if our children could follow suit....

@Frequency I thought you meant she had diagnosed difficulties but it sounds like she just wants to push the boundaries. I also assume she isn't 11 or 12

@ohreallyohreallyoh I’ve heard that before and it’s good to hear again. Certainly true in our county too.

It’s about respect really. Respect for rules, respect for learning, respect for teachers and friends, and self respect too.

If a rule needs to be changed then proper channels can be used to campaign for change without any disrespect along the way.

Change the rules or follow the rules. Those wanting free thinking children... it’s not free thinking to break rules... anyone can do that.

I honestly believe it was a deliberate attempt to have herself excluded or sent to isolation to give her some extra breathing space before having to go back to school properly, iyswim?

If I wasn't worried she'd be happy about it I would have murdered her (

When I was a child and teen, my appearance meant a lot to me because my body was my only sphere of responsibility. Now I am older I don't care about my hair - I care about how my house looks if someone pops round, does it seem tidy and welcoming? I care when my 5 year old won't let me brush HER hair, in case people think she looks neglected. I care about whether my client liked the report I sent them and whether the graphic design reflects the point I was trying to make.

Some people want to express themselves through fashion at school, doesn't mean they will always seek to express themselves that way. I've got more stuff around me now that reflects on me.

OP YANBU btw

howrudeforme - ha ha my DSs primary school class is like this, there’s no uniform but there may well as be because every boy dresses like they’ve just walked out of JD Sports. If you’re not in head to toe Nike or Adidas, then you are not cool. And the price of those clothes! - it would be cheaper to buy everything from a uniform shop.

Uniform rules are genuinely interesting. It's all very British; following rules and knowing your place and not stepping out of line. A world where parents that chafe against arbitrary dress restrictions are chastised as raising entitled little 'snowflakes' because God forbid, you question anything.

The vast majority of children in Western Europe manage to achieve an education and learn to respect 'authority' without being dressed as junior accountants in some provincial Town Hall.

I honestly can't understand why my freshly minted 11 yr old has to wear a ridiculously expensive, sourced solely from the school shop, grey suit and tie with plain black shoes along with a short back and sides, to further his education?

To answer your question, OP, I follow the rules because it's the best school in our area [shrug] and frankly; I can't afford to send him to Bedales