Why do parents of year 7 children do this?

[GuavaPalava]

So my DS has started secondary school this week. Prior to starting, we of course had parents evening, literature, uniform rules - it was made very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't

I was added to a 'new starters in year 7' FB group for my area a few months back and it's been used to ask the usual questions you may expect - apart from this week. It's all kicked off with the following ..

A parent in a fury as in day 1 she received a call saying her son's hair was not acceptable. Cue obligatory pic and he's got a half shaved head and tramlines

Another parent going mad as he DD had pink hair over the summer which she 'bleached out apart from the back' - she can't believe she's been told it needs to be sorted

And another moaning because she received a call about her DD wearing make up

All saying what you'd expect - it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to learn. And yeah, they're right - I get that

But why would you do this? You know the guidelines as a parent and they're very clear . AIBU to say that, knowing these rules, it's your child you immediately single out in a new school by sending him/her in with tram lines hair, pink hair and make up?

PenelopeShitStop
I'm with you. If something needs raising then contact school and raise it but the types who get all frothy and fuming on social media and group chats seem to live for drama rather than raise an issue.
You get loads points from the frothy mam crew if you post: head is a wander dictator who hates children's souls and wants to run a Hitler youth and crush any personality out of our children... blah blah blah... as if they've told my child that no trainers means the trainers I bought aren't allowed!!!

If you as a parent contact the school, have a chat, write a letter of complaint and act like an adult, obviously you are a teacher worshipper who is complicit in creating robot children. The cognitive dissonance some have where complaining to school whilst sending your child in uniform equals 'you think schools should never be questioned' always amuses me.

It's like when I've said these rules need following but I totally support students challenging the school and teach them how to do it properly (rather than through stroppy defiance) somehow equals thinking teachers are Gods and shouldn't be questioned.

Oh Christ maisy. I’m dreading encountering this sort of thing when dcs start school. I haven’t had fb for years though. Maybe I will avoid the worst by steering clear of sm!

I see it where I live. Parents who think it’s cool to let their sons grow their hair long at aged 10 and encourage aspirations of nothing more than to be cool, ride the surf or be a football star. No discipline, no rules, few boundaries, an easy life for their similarly unfocused parents - and a lifetime of mediocre ambition, under- acheivement and whingeing entitlement from the darling kids.

Parents who think it’s cool to let their sons grow their hair long at aged 10 This is completely outrageous - have you informed social services? No way should boys be allowed long hair! Long hair is only for girls!
Some parents have no sense of right and wrong, do they?

“What's going to prepare a child more for life:
A. To know when to follow rules, know how to challenge them and how to present their challenges in a way that is persuasive & articulate?”

“I wonder if having strict uniform policies just creates a battle ground between pupils and teachers. With teachers stressing over every, little detail, children feeling picked on and bullied by the people (teachers) who are supposed to be on their side at school. They then rebel against the teachers and the policies. If we removed the stricter policies, there would be nothing to rebel against. Just a theory.”

Exactly.

5yearplan 's post illustrates nicely the other bstshit end of the spectrum. Encouraging kids to believe that no rules ever apply to them and as a parent instigating the extreme end of rule breaking, then complaining about consequences, is one end of the spectrum. Attitudes like 5yearplan 's are the other.

As usual both extremes are way out and batshit, and in the middle lies balance and sanity.

“My old head used to remind said parents where the door was, and asked if they'd like to love their child, as he'd sign the paperwork there and then for them.”

The problem with the “move your kid if you don’t like it” attitude is that a) most people have very little, if any, choice about the school their child goes to (presumably this Head knew that - and also sounds awful) and b) since almost all schools have very similar rules around uniform, then moving them will make zero difference.

Personally I think that the students should wear uniform when they are in school, but should not be prevented from having hairstyles or other “aesthetic expressions” outside of it. Banning hair dye basically means that teenagers can only ever have, for example, blue hair in the summer holidays. I think that’s a shame, because the teen years are precisely when kids want to be able to do this sort of thing.

For example, I think it’s reasonable to say “no nail polish” because a student can reasonably paint their nails at 3.30pm and remove it at 8am the next morning if they really wanted to. But the hair thing is too restrictive. Personally I loved having colourful hair as a teen, I went to a very good school that didn’t restrict me from that, and it was sort of out of my system by the time I was 20.

I know most people will say that teenagers being free to dye their hair, or have train tracks shaved into it or whatever, isn’t a big deal. But the thing is that I can’t really see what the point of banning it is. What’s the benefit?

"Yup. The stricter the uniform policy, the worse the school. The ones that hit the headlines are always failing schools that have fallen for the bullshit that what fixes problems like underfunding, poor facilities, low morale and struggling, skint families is to bring in a new Head who's an officious, ego-tripping wanker and impose a whole lot of bullshit rules that cost struggling parents a fortune."

This is bullshit. My dc go to an Outstanding rating secondary school which is in the top 25 best performing secondary's in England. They have a strict uniform policy.

They are also in federation with another secondary school a couple of miles away. The head there is not effective, they aren't as strict on their uniform policy, the kids are rebellious and their parents encourage them to stick two fingers up at the school rules and this year were rated down from Requirements Improvement to Inadequate.

YolandaTheYeti
Don't worry.
One thing being in schools highlights is that the vast majority of parents in most schools are the most supportive and reasonable people you could meet. They back the school (even if they may not personally choose some of the rules) and of thry want to complain or raise issues then they do so as polite and reasonable adults.

Then you have the ones who are loud, frothy, always thinking their kid is being picked on, rules don't apply to their child etc. They'll be the ones fuming over anything and everything. Just humour them because they're usually ridiculous.

Eton must be a rubbish school. Have you seen their uniform? www.billingsandedmonds.co.uk/schoolwear/c128

Im 29 and I have those holes in my ears, I also have 2 children that understand that everyone is different and must respect that, don't go blasting people's appearance, for the rules of the school, they are in place for a reason and they too should be followed

Eton must be a rubbish school. Have you seen their uniform?

Certainly doesn't prove that uniforms are some sort of marvellous economic leveller though does it?

scrap the dumb rules re. haircuts and focus on actual teaching. This will sort the moaning parents out too

I don't get why people would want the hassle and fuss about what their child is going to wear every single day without repeating the same few outfits over again. Surely it's far more expensive buy lots of different clothes than it is to buy a uniform.

At least with a uniform it's easier to not worry about they are going to wear everyday and you can get away with buying two pairs of trousers to alternate rather than 10 pairs of trousers with non uniform so it doesn't look they wear the same thing all the time (and teens can be conscious of that.

"scrap the dumb rules re. haircuts and focus on actual teaching. This will sort the moaning parents out too"

The sort of parents who deliberately let their kids rebel against uniform policies are the type who would always moan about anything. It could be free pass to allow their kids in with a bright green mohawk if they wanted but the parents would still find some rule or another to moan about!

they are in place for a reason

Are they, though?

What sensible reason? It's not a social leveller, that's been disproven loads of times. You can foster a sense of belonging with a sensible, comfortable, cost effective uniform like the sweaters and black pants we used to have. You don't need everyone to have the same haircut/colour for them to look smart or belong.

When my DD asks if she can have nostril pierced, I can give her sensible reason as to why she can't. Health and safety, if it gets caught on school gym equipment or another child's sleeve while they're playing she will get hurt and the school will be in trouble (they wouldn't be. I'm not a litigious person, but she accepted my point)

I can't explain why she can't have rose gold or silver hair for school. There is literally no reason other than the school say you can't so you can't and if you go ahead and raid my supply cupboard again be it in your own head.

At least with a uniform it's easier to not worry about they are going to wear everyday
in real life, especially if you're a responsible job, you have to carefully thing what you wear every single day. Very few high-flying jobs have uniforms. Military and airlines. And most jobs with uniforms are lowest level for lowest pay.

Exactly Fish - getting used to choosing your clothes for the next day the evening before is a more realistic preparation for working life than getting used to wearing uniform just in case they are one of the minority of working people in a uniformed job, and somehow can't cope with the concept due to not having practiced for the last 14 years...

I've had children in non uniform school for the last 7 years, and when it is just the norm there is no stress over what to wear. All the children sort out what to wear the night before. They basically just wear jeans and t shirts, plus a hoodie or sweatshirt when its cold. It allows them to dress for the weather. There really is no stress or drama when its nothing special.

I would say teaching kids to dress in a smart casual style would be more beneficial - it’s much trickier to pull off than suit and tie, which is hard to get very wrong. Observing the cummuter train leaving for London - someone wearing a tie is a rare occurrence.

I thought this post was going to be similar to the parents group for my DS new school , but actually its quite the opposite!

In my group, the parents are all treating their kids like babies and asking absolutely inane questions. Should the girls wear tights or socks? (Uniform policy we've all been given quite clearly states tights in autum/winter term), how do we notify the school what days they're buying lunch/having packed lunch? (We don't, it's high school), why haven't they got all their stationery/books/logins on the first day? (Because they'll get them as they have each lesson for the first time) ad nauseum.

DS has listened carefully and reported everything back to me clearly, this is all backed up on the website and parent comms apps we are all (supposedly) using. Funny thing is DS has ASD and I've always joked how inept he is at retaining info, but it seems that other kids/parents are far worse!

I can easily imagine these people being the type to overlook the (very clear imo) rules in the future and kick off in the group.

It's there to help children not to feel isolated among their peers, it's when other children come in with branded clothing and shoes, other children might not be able to afford the latest trends and so to make them feel equal they have to wear a uniform, it's to encourage unity and a sense of belonging. I feel like it does help with bullying somewhat (even thou children will just find something else to pick on) I don't have much money and it helps me knowing that at least I haven't got to out skinting myself even further because my dd can't wear that top again because she's already wore it.

What I do hate thou is how much uniform costs, I know you can get help but that only goes so far, I do agree with maybe just plain uniform you can buy from asda but parents take it upon themselves to get their children expensive stuff and that's were money and class comes into effect and that itself can cause problems for children.

The sort of parents who deliberately let their kids rebel against uniform policies are the type who would always moan about anything. It could be free pass to allow their kids in with a bright green mohawk if they wanted but the parents would still find some rule or another to moan about!
Yup!
"I'm fuming. My child was given a detention for JUST ASKING A QUESTION!!!!" - class were told to do a test in silence. Child was talking to their friend, child was given a 2nd chance, talked again, teacher sent them to complete their test and child disrupted the test with 'oh my god-duh! I was only asking a QUESTION!' And as they leave mutters 'fuckssake' loudly so the class could hear.

"I can't believe my child was sent to head of year for JUST SHARPENING A PENCIL!!!" - Child had been out their seats multiple times claiming to be sharpening a pencil & taking detours via friends for a chat. They were told to stay at their table until the end of the time. Child went on yet another trio around the classroom. Aka. Defiance.

'I'm fuming! School have decided to put my child in isolation for HAVING THEIR SHIRT UNTUCKED! No wonder nobody respects teachers. I'm fed up with them going on at them about their shirt. I've already told them not to attend the last detention for it. Like hell am I giving consent for them to keep my child after school.' - Child was told to tuck their shirt in and instead of following a reasonable request, argued back repeatedly, was rude to staff, held up the start of the lesson. Didn't attend the detention and had shouted across the room 'you can't make me because my mum says I don't have to. She doesn't consent and you can't break my human rights! (Complete with smug argumentative swagger). Detention is missed. Next lesson, uniform is still a mess and the child arrives taking the piss to their mates about how they 'wouldn't fucking dare' and then makes loud comments about how their mum has already told them that if Mrs Smith says anything then they don't have to takr it and can walk out. Mrs Smith reminds child of the expectations and the child laughs, plays to the crowd and then walks out saying 'see ya!'

I think the sign of the worst schools (and unfortunately this applies to most in my -deprived - area) are the ones that have uniform rules but don’t enforce them. Then you end up with the cool kids with the cool trainers etc taking the p*ss out of the ones who are actually in uniform. And this spills over into low level disruption, antisocial behaviour, and bullying. It also goes hand in hand with low aspirations, no respect for education, and poor outcomes. In contrast the college my ds now attends has no uniform, virtually none of those issues, and young people who all want to be there, and are all dressed sensibly. In the “naicer” areas where the strict uniforms are enforced the outcomes are also better.
So I agree with @maisypops, it’s not uniform vs non uniform, it’s the attitude that goes with it.

"in real life, especially if you're a responsible job, you have to carefully thing what you wear every single day. Very few high-flying jobs have uniforms. Military and airlines. And most jobs with uniforms are lowest level for lowest pay."

Are people really this naive about the vast amount of jobs which require a uniform? And jobs with uniforms are lowest level for lowest pay?

I'm at the top of my level in my job and certainly don't earn the lowest pay! I have to wear uniform as does thousands of people in good paying jobs.

My brother is earning around 60 K a year and wears a uniform for safety and hygiene reasons.

To say only the lowest end employees earning the lowest pay wear uniform is laughable! 🤣