Why do parents of year 7 children do this?

[GuavaPalava]

So my DS has started secondary school this week. Prior to starting, we of course had parents evening, literature, uniform rules - it was made very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't

I was added to a 'new starters in year 7' FB group for my area a few months back and it's been used to ask the usual questions you may expect - apart from this week. It's all kicked off with the following ..

A parent in a fury as in day 1 she received a call saying her son's hair was not acceptable. Cue obligatory pic and he's got a half shaved head and tramlines

Another parent going mad as he DD had pink hair over the summer which she 'bleached out apart from the back' - she can't believe she's been told it needs to be sorted

And another moaning because she received a call about her DD wearing make up

All saying what you'd expect - it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to learn. And yeah, they're right - I get that

But why would you do this? You know the guidelines as a parent and they're very clear . AIBU to say that, knowing these rules, it's your child you immediately single out in a new school by sending him/her in with tram lines hair, pink hair and make up?

oh great, a teacher worshipper
Nope.
Teacher who has repeatedly said that they arent personally bothered about uniform vs non uniform. Teacher who actively teaches my students to challenge authority, how to challenge in a way to be heard and have backed students in challenging their school.

I just don't buy the stupid frothing of wannabe activists thinking that ignoring simple rules, kitting their child out in non uniform items and then whining and frothing about the fact the mean and nasty school blah blah blah are teaching their children anything more than how to be entitled, argumentative and defiant.

What's going to prepare a child more for life:
A. To know when to follow rules, know how to challenge them and how to present their challenges in a way that is persuasive & articulate?
B. That rules don't apply to them because they're special and has 'feelz' and they are so unique that they only have to follow rules they like and should refuse to do anything they don't fancy.

We had a 4 day residential and teachers made it very clear dc must not bring sweets. Of course they did so we're confiscated. Dc and teachers arrived back at school and immediately parents are demanding the sweets the teachers "stole". Staff said they'd return them at school the next day as it was all labelled and getting dc home after a 6am start was the priority (it was 9pm by then). Whole bitchy fb thread created slagging off the staff who gave up their own time to give dc an amazing trip all because they weren't allowed bloody sweets!

*I've never previously heard a good reason in favour of school uniform.

I've not seen any on this thread either*

Did you read my post? Horrendous bullying over brand names and fashion in a school with relaxed uniform. Very little when everyone is made to wear school logo’d kit, as no one has the nike or primark versions...

Just my experience, obviously. And if you are a child into fashion and are aware of the latest fashion rules you probably don’t give it a second thought. But if you aren’t in with the crowd, or if your parents don’t have spare cash to upgrade your trainers every term, or you have one of those mothers who insists you buy the m&s version or the sensible shoes, then you spend more time worrying about your clothes than your homework.

i just don't buy the stupid frothing of wannabe activists thinking that ignoring simple rules, kitting their child out in non uniform items and then whining and frothing about the fact the mean and nasty school blah blah blah are teaching their children anything more than how to be entitled, argumentative and defiant. uniform rules have got increasingly more rediculous and it's got to the stage that lads are getting booted for having standard short back and sides haircuts. A lot of the problems stem from headteachers that either get a creepy kick out of exerting their authority on children or are deluded that fancy uniforms make their bog standard comps equal to Eton. Either way if you impose stupid rules don't be surprised if folk try to get round them. Happens the world over and in all sorts of situations.

Sad isn’t it, motherofdragons that teachers have to spend their time labelling sweets for rule breaking parents instead of teaching their children.

@Aspichick yep although I think they spent their evening doing it when they should have been resting. The reason they banned them was a previous year a dc was rushed to hospital and needed surgery and staff gave last time of eating as the meal time as they didn't realise he'd had a midnight feast.

My child was bullied relentlessly over her appearance in the last two years of her logo'd, uniformed Primary school. It's the root of her anxiety and probably why she finds it important to identify as "other" to her peers.

She does, as a pp said, have a uniform. We had the goth phase, now we stalk a young woman who calls herself Girli around the country and Dd dresses like her and her fans.

She was bullied for wearing her bobbles wrong, having her hair too short, having hair that wasn't blonde or brown, having the wrong bag and shoes, not wearing skinny jeans and uggs on a weekend and on and on.

In other words her uniform didn't protect her from being bullied becuase uniform doesnt. If you are unfortunate enough to attract the attention of a bully, wearing the exact same skirt as them wont deter them.

SpringSnow
Causation is the other way around in my experience.

Schools where parents bother to kit their children out appropriately and don't take the piss = school has sensible uniform policy, parents follow the spirit as well as the letter of the policy, students do their usual push against uniform but a quick polite reminder and it's all good, very little confrontation, zero issues

Schools where they say 'plain black leather school shoes' and parents buy trainers, where they say plain black non fashion trousers, not skinny and parents buy super skinny stretchy leggings style trousers etc = schools get so fed up having to deal with gobshites who can't follow a simple rule/actively flout as many as they can whilst telling their child no sanction applies to them that they make very very detailed, prescriptive uniforms (and even then some mother will be in the local press with her compo face on about some £80 trainers she bought for a school that says "no trainers")

I've taught in a range of schools (uniform and non uniform). The major difference is the attitude of parents.

Based on my experiences at schools, I could draw a graph plotting how pedantic and prescriptive the uniform of a school is and % of parents who have a school sized chip on their shoulder and think defiance is perfectly normal and just their darling expressing themselves.

The rules are ridiculous though. I go to work in a proffesional job and i wear what i want, have my hair how i want etc its not an issue in the real world and it really doesnt stop anyone learning.

Dss wasnt allowed to take his school blazer off in 30 degree heat - thats distracting.

flamingofridays, so I guess if you turned up to work on Monday wearing only a gold thong and some nipple tassles your boss wouldn't bat an eye lid?

I work in a hospital and we regularly get the public complain our nurses have been seen out wearing their uniform, especially midwives... yes, they're "community" nurses! Medical professionals have fairly ridged rules where I work but some staff do push against the rules. They're the ones who don't get promotions. Funny that. It's about attitudes more than the actual clothes when it comes to school.

Maybe their parents didn't follow the rules, my daughter had half her head shaved in primary school (school were fine) got her place in secondary found they have really strict rules on hair so she as an 11-year-old decided to grow it out so she didn't get into trouble. She also told me what shoes I have to get her.
Personally, it's just lazy defiant parenting, just read the crap, laugh and move on.

Flamming I wasn't allowed to take my uniform off in 40 degree heat (inside) because it would put my health and safety at risk. It happens, you deal with it. That's life.

So how extreme do school rules have to be before people stop saying "You knew the rules when you signed up"?

Maybe a different uniform every term, with a week's notice? Crew cuts in September then a requirement for hair to be past the collar in January?

Note: I'm deliberately suggesting ridiculously over the top rules here, but I do recall a thread on here with a head measuring hemlines in January, and sending girls home because their school specified skirts (Bought in September) were now an inch too short, and long enough ones were too loose. And then there's the "New school year, new head, new no-tolerance policy" issue...

I thought I had read everything daft on this thread, but I am astonished that any sentient adult could post,as @SpringSnow has, that school is "not that important". It b*ggers belief, frankly. If you are not going to teach your child how to deal with real life, and you don't think school matters, what future do you envisage for SpringSnowJr?

SpringSnow as you seem to dislike teachers, head teachers, rules and school, are you home schooling your dc?

For years my DDs school uniform was sweatshirt, black trousers (but jeans we're overlooked) and black trainers/shoes. It was simple and comfortable. There we're some minimal hair and make-up rules, but not too strict.

As the school started 'failing' - not their fault, I'm sure. What else is going to happen in an area full of poverty, where public services are being cut to the bone, they can't recruit new teachers and the teachers are picking up the slack for underfunded mental health services - but the more it 'failed' the more they brought in strict rules that served no purpose. I suspect it's about trying to keep 'control' in situation they have less and less control over because so many outside things affect how children are. Where my friend works as a teacher, for instance, loads of the kids parents have to use food banks. Of course they might not be on top of uniforms!

As for the whole 'getting ready for the real world,' I work in a professional NGO setting - I've been to dozens of meetings with directors and CEOs - not one of them wearing a tie, jacket or suit. Mainly smart, clean jeans, shirts, jumpers. Women in jeans, casual dresses, cardigans. And all people who are doing amazing work in the world!

So, maybe get in perspective and if it bothers you that people are ignoring the uniform rules, scroll on or don't listen. It has no bearing on how those kids might turn out.

I hate parents who think that the rules are for everyone except them and their children. It's infuriating. Not only are rules good for preparing the children for later in life where they will be expected to adhere to a dress code. But they also stop lots of petty jealousy that can happen between peers in school. Wearing your own things in schools can cause a lot of jealousy or in some cases bullying because the clothes/style is deemed 'uncool' (or whatever ridiculous terms are used these days). And you would also get angry parents coming up to the school complaining that their childs designer clothes got ruined at school and demanding that the school pay for it.

And it does interfere with learning. If your children are constantly worried over how they look and not having the latest clothes or not wearing the right make-up then how do they concentrate? For young people, image is important and they don't want to stick out. What if the girls just spent all of their time in the toilets touching up eye liner and reapplying mascara? Cut all of those issues out, ensure that no-one can be bullied for not wearing the "right" clothes/shoes/make-up and make everyone go to school in the same thing. The rules are there for a reason, a good reason, and they should be followed.

Maybe these parents who 'don't respect authority' are simply aware that 'authority' has no respect for them. We've had at least 20 years of the government and the media actively demonizing poor people - and nearly 10 of funding to schools being cut and cut again; academisation and 'free' schools being set up as profit-making organisations (as well as a playground for petty tyrants and people who really don't like children); younger parents are going to remember the bullying, chaos, petty rules and inadequate facilities of their own school days. They will be telling their children not to worry about rules, and not to let the teachers push them around because these are parents who have been treated like feral scum who need to be controlled and made to obey by every form of authority they have ever encountered.
Why should they respect an authority which has no respect whatsoever for them?

I was asked today if I wanted to join the new Y7 group. I politely declined. Too many moany, entitled people who would rather bitch into their phones than speak to the school through official ‘grown up’ channels

Frequency I remember being mocked for my clothes and shoes at school. Happened a lot but I remember one occasion walking along while the bullies walked next to me laughing at me, looking at my feet and realising one of the bullies was wearing the same shoes

cider but its not health and safety related in school is it? If anything its a risk!

genius im sure they would bat an eyelid but that would be it! Im in my own office behind closed doors. Makes no difference to anyone else what i wear!

I agree with uniform, or a dress code but find it unnecesary to dictate on hair etc. Sending a pupil home because there is a tiny stripe on their shoes or their hair is too short doesnt help anyone.

It tells them that how they're dressed is more important than their education - which is quite opposite of the message schools try and give out.

Flamingofridays, but if one of your co workers complained to the management that your 'thong and nipple tassles' were offensive to them, then your manager would be obliged to deal with it! I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm just stating that we all have to follow rules, whether we like to admit it or not. It might not be a full on shirt, suit and tie...But there will still be some sort of policy on 'suitable attire'. I think a lot of people on here are missing the bigger picture slightly. It's not solely about the actual uniform! It's about being able to follow rules and having some respect for what's expected. People saying that 'the rules are ridiculous, we should challenge the rules, we don't have to adhere them' etc. Why don't we just abandon all rules and let the entire society spiral into utter chaos and anarchy...just so we can stick our middle finger up at authority! No wonder our kids are growing up full of their own, misguided, sense of self importance and then get a shock when they enter the 'real world' and realise that everything doesn't revolve around them. We're setting them up to fail and in turn they're turning into entitled, selfish brats!