To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?

[MipMipMip]

A rapist has now admitted to assaulting female prisoners while in a women's prision. (This individual is in prision for rape but the assaults on prisoners do not appear to have been rape. Assuming all have come forward. )

But there is a large part of me that think this is down almost entirely to the people who put him there. Don't get me wrong - I blame the rapist. But it is clear that they are opportunistic. So while you wouldn't be surprised if someone went in a tigers cage and got eaten, you shouldn't be surprised that a rapist going into a women's prision assaults women.

These assaults were wholly avoidable. AIBU to think the people who enabled the rapist should be held partially responsible?

*for clarity: as MNHQ do not allow a person to be misgendered and this individual identifies as trans I have not used male pronouns. I hope that this does not prevent clear discussion.

This person is a rapist, whether male or “female” .
It’s all about the power.
Male oppression over females
Rape is not about sexual desire, it’s about power over a weaker opponent EVERY FUCKING TIME.
And all of those who rape are men, you know, those with the dicks.

But why can’t trans just go on the VP wing

Pedophiles aren’t interested in old men who think their women

And the other type of person who is usually on the VP awing is very young prisoners it’s unlikely a pubescent teen will be sexually interested in a rough looking trans person

When you go to prison it is because you have been convicted of committing a crime, loss of your liberty is your punishment, to then to be a victim of a rapist whilst you are there is just disgraceful, what the hell is going on? surely your personal safety is important, not the rights of these people however they choose to identify, especially when they have been convicted of a sexual crime. Fuming, we live in crazy times, whatever happened to common sense?

But why can’t trans just go on the VP wing

Pedophiles aren’t interested in old men who think their women

And the other type of person who is usually on the VP awing is very young prisoners it’s unlikely a pubescent teen will be sexually interested in a rough looking trans person

Keep them out of the VP. Some these people (the ones likely to be sent to prision) are very good at grooming young people. Thete are already problems with prisioners convicted of minor crimes being influenced by other prisioners and instead of being rehabilitated coming out worse than they went in. And besides, the young person may well not be interested. Whose to say they will have a choice?

When it's legally only a penis that can rape, by putting a rapist in with women does that mean the prison system believes in lady cocks? I can't see how else it could be argued.

In which case the law and the prison system are at odds?

And to think that a Labour Women’s Officer questioned the validity of the charges when the story first broke. Instead of speaking out on behalf of the female victims.

I’m just waiting for the usual crowd of people coming along screaming transphobia / we are bigots................what....wait....no one??

bzzbeebzz that person is not fit for purpose. Grrrr.....

Women who get sentenced to jail have the human right to be kept safe

Their human rights are clearly violated by being locked up with predatory men, who have been convicted of rape or other sexual assaults
so I hope women prisoners can sue under the EHRC for whopping damages

That might wake up the politicians and stop other women being sexually assaulted by men in jail

(I refuse to refer to a man who rapes as "she" - that's just ridiculous)

Yes it's interesting how many people who are so keen on self I D have suddenly gone silent. Back to lurking on the feminist chat .

Maybe I misread the article, but was she a convicted rapist before she was housed in a women's prison?

Women prison officers might well have problems restraining much stronger men, to protect women prisoners
and be at higher risk of injury - even of being sexually assaulted - themselves

There are far fewer genuinely physically dangerous women prisoners than men prisoners, so it is probably a comparatively new development for women Prison Officers to face.

However, I wonder why the Prison Officers Association hasn't been more active and vocal on this topic
I hope they put the safety of their officers before appearing cool & woke about trans.

Separate trans wings would be a pragmatic solution to safeguarding prisoners and prison officers:
transwomen on a wing in men's prisons: transmen on a wing in a women's prisons.

1981 - I dont' think that we have ever had a clear answer to the question of who this police officer was legally allowed to search, what with having two warrant cards during their transition www.echo-news.co.uk/news/14602446.Police_officer_speaks_out_after_gender_reassignment_____I_took_a_leap_of_faith_to_become_a_woman___/

And why the authorities couldn't see the power play inherent in a transwoman insisting on being searched by a female prison officer also remains somewhat of a mystery www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-prison-officers-refuse-strip-7667184

Except, y'know, male feelings trump female boundaries

Maybe I misread the article, but was she a convicted rapist before she was housed in a women's prison?

White was on remand for a number of rapes at the time and also had previous convictions for violent and sexual offences:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7197153/transgender-rapist-women-inmates-in-jail/

What? I cannot believe what the world has come to, ridiculous. If you have a Penis then you’re a man, if you want to be a woman, dress as a woman then good for you and that is your right and nobody should have an issue with that... but a Man with a Penis should not be in a woman’s prison.

In law, only male humans can rape.

In time, once the veil of emperors new clothes is lifted, I foresee many court cases against individuals and organisations for actively encouraging putting females in harms way.

Pimmsnlemonade. The rapist isn’t a woman, isn’t a “she” the rapist is a Man. He has a Penis.

What I find puzzling is that it's accepted that in most institutions policy/rules re: safeguarding are applied across the board, that doesn't mean that it's believed that all in those institutions are potentially abusers/rapists etc But adhering to those rules, including various forms of exclusion, is accepted as it's the price that everyone has to pay to guard against the possible actions of a few. Why then is it not understood that this should also apply to issues re: transgender?

Excluding people with a penis from certain settings, is not about saying all transgender people are rapists/abusers but applying the same principles re: safeguarding in all settings where individuals are vulnerable or could be vulnerable, i.e. that forms of safeguarding have to apply across the board. Yes that may mean that perfectly safe individuals are excluded from settings in which they would not pose a threat, but it has to happen to guard against those who will pose a threat, it's a form of insurance. I know plenty of people who accept safeguarding rules in other settings, and don't get personally offended/feel targeted, why should the transgender community get a 'free pass' when anyone else wouldn't?

The prison service has "apologized," but are they actually planning on changing their policies re the housing of biologically male prisoners?

"Sorry" is an empty word unless one is actually promising not to do it again.

In law, only male humans can rape.

That's the case in the UK but not everywhere (someone will bring it up!). Also women can be involved in joint enterprise (I think that's the right one) where the lured a woman or held her down etc. But yes, in the UK a penis must be involved for it to be rape.

I have no idea if a transman can physically rape someone but that is the only way I can see a woman being a rapist.

@BigChocFrenzy Separate trans wings would be a pragmatic solution to safeguarding prisoners and prison officers:
transwomen on a wing in men's prisons: transmen on a wing in a women's prisons

...except that is highly offensive to the trans rights groups who are causing all this issue, as @oddboots and I were discussing earlier. It is "literal violence" to suggest they have ever been a man and to use their past status would be "deadnaming" them. no doubt some other grave offence would be sought and proclaimed in the event of a natal male being placed on a ward with other natal males like himself.

Also it's just ridiculously impractical for physical and financial reasons when prisons are already on their knees. Not to mention elevating and enhancing the rights of one prison population beyond any other category.

Ok. But she wasn't a convicted rapist when she was sent to a women's prison. Do we know if any biological female prisoners there have been caught sexually touching another inmate? I'm sure they're no angels.

Ok. But she wasn't a convicted rapist when she was sent to a women's prison. Do we know if any biological female prisoners there have been caught sexually touching another inmate? I'm sure they're no angels.

Should we just do away with sex segregated prisons then? Just chuck em all in together?

No absolutely not, the welfare of the female prisoners comes first. It is disgusting that a sex offender who has raped women, is allowed to be in close contact with potential victims, and he has assaulted them. Sick!

Or to put it another way Mydoctor do you really think that because it's possible that sometimes women sexually assault another woman in prison, we can just let blokes into women's prisons willy nilly?