To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?

[MipMipMip]

A rapist has now admitted to assaulting female prisoners while in a women's prision. (This individual is in prision for rape but the assaults on prisoners do not appear to have been rape. Assuming all have come forward. )

But there is a large part of me that think this is down almost entirely to the people who put him there. Don't get me wrong - I blame the rapist. But it is clear that they are opportunistic. So while you wouldn't be surprised if someone went in a tigers cage and got eaten, you shouldn't be surprised that a rapist going into a women's prision assaults women.

These assaults were wholly avoidable. AIBU to think the people who enabled the rapist should be held partially responsible?

*for clarity: as MNHQ do not allow a person to be misgendered and this individual identifies as trans I have not used male pronouns. I hope that this does not prevent clear discussion.

A bit more info here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/06/transgender-person-accused-rape-remanded-female-prison-sexually/

The plot has truly been lost when papers are forced to refer to a convicted male rapist as 'she.'

I feel really angry that a rapist is referred to as «she»

A male is in a female prison? Why is it called a female prison then if men are in there!

She explained: “The defendant would stand very close to her, touch her arm and wink at her. Her penis was erect and sticking out of the top of her trousers.”

Really?

also, how is this crime being recorded, which sex?

Welcome to this brave new world where hurting a trans persons feelings (or "transphobia) is worse than rape.

from the telegraph article

"Appearing at Leeds Crown Court last month, White pleaded guilty to two counts of rape in relation to the 2016 attack and also admitted indecently assaulting two New Hall prisoners."

Karen White/Stephen Wood had previously been jailed for a sexual attack against a child. Karen White/Stephen Wood committed the rapes whilst living as a woman - obviously raping people with their lady-cock is what women do nowadays.

Oops careful ladies, we don't want to be accused of 'horrific abuse' now, do we?
Nah fuck that. This is outrageous and anyone who defends it is a complete and utter arsehole as far as I'm concerned. Women prisoners are not fodder for rapists.

This situation is horrifying. If the self-ID legislation goes through, I imagine it will become commonplace. Those in favour of the changes say that appropriate checks and safeguarding measures will be made - well, what if they are not? Or what if they don’t work? It is NOT acceptable for women to be put in this situation.

Please can I urge anyone who is concerned to send a really really quick email to their MP, saying how this should not have happened, and how it will keep on happening unless we make it clear that men do not belong in women’s prisons.

Hope this link works:

www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-your-mp/

We need to speak up for these women. They have been through enough.

YANBU...Sex segregated spaces are there for a reason. Prisons, changing rooms, refuges, toilets, school changing rooms, hospital wards etc, etc, etc.

This case is an excellent example of why the "rigorous risk assessments carried out by professionals" is an inadequate answer to the suggestion that the starting point should be that transwomen are able to access women only spaces, whether it's a prison, Top Shop changing room or DV refuge. Because in an example of a risk assessment being carried out by a trained professional, they got it so wrong that it's almost criminally negligent - so what chance does the Saturday shop assistant at Top Shop have?

Nobody popped up to compare us to Nazis for discussing this yet?
The women who were assaulted should be suing the MoJ. That might give them pause for thought before they let this happen again.

Horrific.

To those women, I'm so sorry, and I'm sorry that the arrogant prison service facilitated your assault.

Do we have any police officers on here that can advice me of the guild lines as to strip serch

When a officer claims they are trans

I would rather go to jail than be step searched by a man this has implications for the women even if male imates are not put in the jails what about that staff

There is a consultation on the possible changes to the Gender Recognition Act. It closes in a few weeks I think. If you think this is wrong, you need to tell the government.
Fill in the consultation here:
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004
Helpful guidance from Fair Play For Women here:
fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FPFW-printable-guide-1.pdf
There’s a thread in feminism chat too.

A pp suggested separate transgender prisons.

I wonder how many of the transwomen (i.e. those born as men) would be raped by other trans women in that scenario? I have a feeling I could count the number on no fingers.

(Unfortunately a "trans prison" would also include any criminal trans men too, and they really would be at risk, what with having been born female)

It's all horrifying.

I would have thought that a trans prison or even a trans wing would have two separate areas so they could remain sex segregated.

Well you'd like to think the rapists who have working penises would have been segregated from the class of people they can't stop raping, but here we are..,

And @OddBoots, even if they did magic up the funds and real estate for nearly segregated trans wings, what segregation would you use?

Birth sex? That's a form of transphobic deadnaming isn't it?

Their trans-preferred gender?
What if a tw suddenly decides to be a man again? Do they stay or go back to the main prison estate? Then if they stay, would they get moved in with the trans men? If I was a rapist posing as a tw, I'd be wanting in the n the trans men wing, stat, for obvious reasons.

Confusing typo in my op:

"And OddBoots, even if they did magic up the funds and real estate for neatly segregated trans wings, what segregation would you use?"

Primary segregation would always remain as by sex, sex doesn't change. If someone desists from transition they wouldn't need to be on a trans wing.

Mad world.

So primary sex segregation would be by birth sex?

In which case there's no need for a trans wing as males are with males and females are with females.

This is why it's so nonsensically circular.

I'm not being clear it seems.

Sex segregation works, sex segregation is a right that should be retained for all prisoners.

There are those who think that trans prisoners are more vulnerable within their sex segregation.

If this is true then the answer is not to remove sex segregation but to additionally segregate trans prisoners.
Two extra types of wing would be required as trans prisoners also have a sex so retain the right to sex segregation.