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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Bloody entitled grown up children!

327 replies

PhaedrasChocolate · 29/08/2018 13:50

May very well get lambasted for this, but i need to vent.

I have a 21 year old dd. She is currently transferring to a different university as she hated her course last year. She's been staying with her bf all summer, she doesn't live with me.

I woke this morning to a WhatsApp telling me I need to hurry up and log on to some student accommodation portal and accept being guarantor for her new place...

She's never asked me to be guarantor. This is the first I've heard of any if it, I've had no emails, don't know anything about the portal.

Apparently if I don't do it by the end of today, she's got nowhere to live She was breathtakingly rude to me on the phone and I'm really pissed off.

Anyway. My point is this. Am I the only parent of dc this age that thinks they are a generation of selfish, entitled little shits? Are they all like this? Me and my mum shouted at each other for a couple of years until I left home, but we had a good relationship after that and still do.

I just don't know how to deal with her. I love her madly, we used to be so close, and then around 17/18 it all changed. I foolishly thought I'd got away with it because she was still lovely as a 15 year old....

How do I deal with this? I don't want to alienate her any more than I have already, but she treats me horribly a lot of the time, and I don't want to put up with it.

OP posts:

bpirockin · 01/09/2018 02:52

If you don't want to be treated badly then you don't have to accept it. Tell her that you are unhappy that she is only in touch when she wants something from you, and that she can't expect you just to jump when she clicks her fingers with no prior discussion. You can encourage a better relationship by nurturing honest communication. If she will really be homeless then why is she being rude to someone who can help her?

She's 21, no longer a child, and whilst it would be great if parents were there to support their off-spring whatever their age, they are not setting a great example if they don't take responsibility for their own feelings and needs. I had a few friends at school whose parents had money, bailed them out time and time again over the years, and not one of them sorted themselves out until the parents finally had enough, closed the doors to the bank of Mum and Dad and forced them to take responsibility for their own actions. My suggestion to you would be to ask for some consideration/respect from her, before things get any worse. She's lucky that you seem to be happy to help, and are merely asking for a little respect in the process.

MsFrizzle · 01/09/2018 04:13

Am I the only parent of dc this age that thinks they are a generation of selfish, entitled little shits?

My parents were happy to guarantor for all of the places I lived because who the fuck else is going to for an 18 year old who's only ever lived with their parents?

Also, who raised them to be self entitled little shits, hmm?

AynRandTheObjectivist · 01/09/2018 08:53

Depression, self harming and suicide were virtually unknown in most families

Really? From what I've read, both fact and fiction, they seem to have been very much present, but mislabelled and misunderstood.

HeckyPeck · 01/09/2018 09:08

only on mumsnet

Only on mumsnet do people apparently not understand that OP CAN’T AFFORD to be a guarantor. FFS

mrsjackrussell · 01/09/2018 09:17

If you can't afford it op then you can't do it. Maybe it will do your daughter good to try to stand on her own two feet. You will be doing her a favour and she won't keep relying on you at the last minute. She's probably had weeks to sort this out. She's 21 and should really be organised.

LightastheBreeze · 01/09/2018 09:40

Not all people can be guarantors, some LLs want you to be home owners, steady job, reasonable salary and good credit score, not all people fit this criteria, some LLs may not be as strict and only want some of these things, if you look around it may be possible to find accommodation.

Not everyone can be a guarantor, we don't know OPs full financial situation but she says she is in a low paid job.

Motoko · 01/09/2018 09:58

only on mumsnet would people never consider being a guarantor for their student kids.

Here we go again, another person posting from their bubble of privilege.

Is it really so hard to understand that there are many parents WHO CANNOT AFFORD to be a guarantor, and are unlikely to be accepted?

Should it be only middle class children who further their education?

RedAndGreenSeen · 01/09/2018 11:15

only on mumsnet would people never consider being a guarantor for their student kids

What Mokoto said. Only on mumsnet would people just ignore the whole text and context of the OP. Their childish motive seems to be to somehow try and make themselves look good and the OP bad. When really they look immature and unable to imagine any shade of experience outside their own. They also seem unable to read a whole paragraph.

JUST TO REPEAT (again capitals because people can't read or can't be bothered to read) (1) the OP HASN'T GOT THE MONEY!!!! and (2) SHE WAS SPOKEN TO LIKE SHIT BY HER 21 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER.

I'm sure OP left the building a long time ago, no doubt fed up of people deliberately misunderstanding her issue.

RedAndGreenSeen · 01/09/2018 11:17

AND we should thank the OP for starting this thread, starting a discussion, and opening our eyes to this increasing general practice of guarantors.

Instead of attacking her personally.

Dungeondragon15 · 01/09/2018 11:51

Is it really so hard to understand that there are many parents WHO CANNOT AFFORD to be a guarantor, and are unlikely to be accepted?

You don't need to afford anything though if the guarantee is limited to the child's rent only unless your child can't be trusted to pay or not cause damage. Obviously the landlord may decide he won't accept a parent as a guarantor but that isn't a reason for a parent refusing to help in the first place.

ShalomJackie · 01/09/2018 12:36

only on mumsnet would people never consider being a guarantor for their student kids

Can I just say that we are probably as middle class as MN can get (both lawyers/high income) and we would NOT be a guarantor for our son at uni because the terms of the guarantee were that we would be jointly be liable for the other students in his house share so £27k a year. (We paid for our son's rent anyway). The other parents did not realise this until we told them. whilst we might trust our child (and in our case we were funding his rent anyway) why should I trust 6 other students I do not know (although my son did - for one year only at that point) would pay/would not drop out after a week/term/half year/would not move in with their bf/gf etc) and end up footing their bill too. It makes no sense, financial or otherwise.

The students all found a property (in Lancaster) that did not require a guarantor.

We are pretty certain that if a Landlord needed to chase one of the students for rent they may have gone after that person's guarantor but if they were unable to pay we were pretty certain we would be great targets for a student's rent (not our child).

If there are properties locally that do not require guarantors then it makes sense to go for them.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 01/09/2018 12:51

In some places it is virtually impossible to get a lease which isn't 'joint and severally liable'. Why would a landlord, renting to students, not cover themselves as much as possible? It makes sense for them to make every guarantor liable, to ensure the rrnt gets paid. But it's a really sharky practise to make people liable for a stranger's rent since most guarantors a) don't really know the full implications of what 5hey have signed and b)don't have much of a choice if their kids need housing.

The whole system of student housing and private renting is rotten and needs serious reform.

HeckyPeck · 01/09/2018 15:44

You don't need to afford anything though if the guarantee is limited to the child's rent only unless your child can't be trusted to pay or not cause damage.

You’d need to be able to afford the rent if anything went wrong. OP can’t afford to. She would be incredibly irresponsible to take the risk when she has dependant children living at home.

She also wouldn’t be able to access credit and a credit report would show she’s overcommitted. She has no savings. If any emergency expenses came up she’d be fucked.

VeryBerryAugust · 01/09/2018 15:47

If you can't afford to pay it you can't afford to go guarantor.

Thesearepearls · 01/09/2018 15:55

The issue of joint and several liability worried us as well. We limited our liability to the extent of DD's own liability as has been noted upthread.

Also OP if your DD is restarting her first year, is she not going back into halls? If it's a student portal it sounds as though it's back into halls. In which case the issue of joint and several liability isn't relevant.

Therefore the risk of being a guarantor is not so great and in practice likely not to arise. It sounds therefore as though it might not be such a great problem.

As for the emotional distance, take time with her. I always made a point of going to see DD once a term or so - to go and grab a meal and connect. Plus she came home once a term or so too.

Motoko · 01/09/2018 16:20

Therefore the risk of being a guarantor is not so great and in practice likely not to arise. It sounds therefore as though it might not be such a great problem.

It's risky with regards to OP's daughter though. If she's left it so late in the day, and sprung it on her mum, what are the chances she'll be late with the rent, or doesn't have the rent because she's spent it all on going out or buying clothes and make up? Either she'll ring her mum demanding money to pay the rent, or she won't say anything and OP will get a bill from the LL a few months down the line.

As has been mentioned on here, by people who've been stung when they were guarantors, there are plenty of students who for one reason or another, don't pay the rent. It's a risky thing to do, and should only be done by those who would be able to pay if it came to it.

And people shouldn't be shamed into signing a contract they have no means to be able to adhere to.

Lemonnaise · 01/09/2018 19:13

only on mumsnet would people never consider being a guarantor for their student kids

You sound like an entitled brat yourself. So you wouldn't care if the parent can't afford it? You just want it anyway?

Dungeondragon15 · 01/09/2018 20:45

You’d need to be able to afford the rent if anything went wrong. OP can’t afford to. She would be incredibly irresponsible to take the risk when she has dependant children living at home.

It's not "incredibly irresponsible" to trust your own child to pay their rent!! Yes, she has dependent children but I think that parents still have some responsibility towards their children while they are in education. Surely most parents trust their children not to cripple them financially and leave them unable to look after younger siblings unless they have good reason not to. Would you not trust your own child?

Dungeondragon15 · 01/09/2018 20:49

She also wouldn’t be able to access credit and a credit report would show she’s overcommitted. She has no savings. If any emergency expenses came up she’d be fucked.

She would be able to access credit if she already has a credit card. It would be sensible to have one anyway if she has a limited income and no savings.

HeckyPeck · 01/09/2018 21:34

Would you not trust your own child?

It’s not just about not trusting them. They could get sick/get into a bad relationship/drop out of the course/have flat mates that trash the place.

And sadly their are some young adults who would be selfish enough to leave their parents up shit creek. See PPs for just a few examples.

If I had a kid entering uni and I could afford to then I would be guarantor.

If I couldn’t afford it then I wouldn’t.

It’s very simple.

If OP went to any decent advice agency and explained her situation they’d advise her not to do it.

Dungeondragon15 · 02/09/2018 10:28

It’s not just about not trusting them. They could get sick/get into a bad relationship/drop out of the course/have flat mates that trash the place.

I did say that if the guarantee could be limited to the child only would you not trust them so the argument that the flatmates could trash the place is not relevant. If they are a student they would get their loan (presumably a full loan if the parent is on a low income) whether or not they are sick so that argument isn't relevant either. As for dropping out, I would trust my child to get a job in that situation so that they could pay the rent.

And sadly their are some young adults who would be selfish enough to leave their parents up shit creek. See PPs for just a few examples.

Have people mentioned their own child leaving them up shit creek? I think people have talked about the issue of being responsible for other students rather than the own child which is totally different and not an issue of affordability. Unless a parent has reason to think their child would leave them up shit creek, refusing to be guarantor even if it means that their child has to give up on their studies is arguably a sign of irresponsible parenting rather than the other way around.

If I had a kid entering uni and I could afford to then I would be guarantor.

So you would refuse to act as guarantor (limited to your child only) even if it meant that your child could not do the degree? You may like to think that is responsible and that you are thinking of your other children but personally I think you should be thinking about the welfare and lives of all your children not just the ones that haven't reached their 18th birthday.

Dungeondragon15 · 02/09/2018 10:36

If OP went to any decent advice agency and explained her situation they’d advise her not to do it.

Show me any onliine advice that tells parents not to act as guarantor for their own children. The only advice I see is that students are given individual contracts rather than joint and separately liable ones and to watch out for other potential scams.

Boulty · 06/09/2018 13:38

I realise a week or so since you posted but just catching up and will add my reply to the many others.

I think that people treat them how you allow them to treat you. If you respond by doing what she suggests (tells you to do) in this manner then she will continue to communicate like that with you.

Tell her that her attitude is not acceptable etc etc.... on the guarantor side... caution, with an attitude like that she could end up landing you with a large bill.

Good luck

HeckyPeck · 06/09/2018 16:40

Dungeon, why don’t you contact CAB and ask if it’s a good idea to be a rent guarantor when you’d have no way of paying the rent?

HeckyPeck · 06/09/2018 16:41

Or perhaps you could find an article that says people should be guarantors even when they’d have no way of paying the rent?

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