Bloody entitled grown up children!

[PhaedrasChocolate]

May very well get lambasted for this, but i need to vent.

I have a 21 year old dd. She is currently transferring to a different university as she hated her course last year. She's been staying with her bf all summer, she doesn't live with me.

I woke this morning to a WhatsApp telling me I need to hurry up and log on to some student accommodation portal and accept being guarantor for her new place...

She's never asked me to be guarantor. This is the first I've heard of any if it, I've had no emails, don't know anything about the portal.

Apparently if I don't do it by the end of today, she's got nowhere to live She was breathtakingly rude to me on the phone and I'm really pissed off.

Anyway. My point is this. Am I the only parent of dc this age that thinks they are a generation of selfish, entitled little shits? Are they all like this? Me and my mum shouted at each other for a couple of years until I left home, but we had a good relationship after that and still do.

I just don't know how to deal with her. I love her madly, we used to be so close, and then around 17/18 it all changed. I foolishly thought I'd got away with it because she was still lovely as a 15 year old....

How do I deal with this? I don't want to alienate her any more than I have already, but she treats me horribly a lot of the time, and I don't want to put up with it.

I am a guarantor for my stepson - neither of his bio parents earn enough to act as guarantors and it does make me very nervous as they are a group of 7 lads. BUT - I think it’s just normal these days to have one and I need to trust that he and his mates like and respect their parents and stepparents enough to not trash the place.

These sound like bigger issues to me - why not do it (if you can) but also sit her down and tell her how it makes you feel when she just demands last minute and takes you for granted. When I was young I was a selfish cow - and it didn’t always occur to me that ‘adults’ had feelings. I know it sounds insane now! Good luck

BUT - I think it’s just normal these days to have one and I need to trust that he and his mates like and respect their parents and stepparents enough to not trash the place.

That's what the estate agents want you to believe but in reality many people only act as guarantor for their child not their friends too which is what you are doing. You don't even know that all the other parents have signed - they only need one person to do it.

This thread has been informative. I know what to look for if / when I'm asked to sign.

In general there is no way I'd want to sign for anyone's share other than my own family member.

I think a lot of people believe they are acting as guarantor only for their child and not the house as a whole. But even where each tenant has a signed guarantor, the truth is if they have signed a 'joint and severally liable' lease, the landlord can persue any guarantor, regardless of who defaulted.
Each tenant is responsible for the rent as a whole amount. If one or more defaults, the rest will get chased. It's their legal obligation to pay and if you are guarantor, it becomes your legal obligstion too.
Now, LL will persue the individual guarantor for the person who defaults as a first step, but they can persue other guarantors if it becomes necessary.

In our contract it did state a maximum that we would have to pay for rent if there was a default which was DS share.

The wording is 'liability under this guarantee in respect of rent payable under the agreement shall be limited to the Tenant's contribution of the rent' then there is a lot of blah about how its calculated and the sum was just under £4k, (DS share) so were not liable for the whole house

Is your daughter selfish or is she just a typical disorganised young lady who leaves everything until the last minute.does she understand about such things as a guarantor as not sure mine did at that age.

Don't you see your role in raising an entitled and irresponsible shitbag?

We instill values in our kids so is it not a parenting failure if they don't grow up to be respectful, grateful and responsible?

Interesting thread. Its a shame the OP has gone. I suspect she has got over her venting and has sorted it, and has also found some of the posts rather attacking.

I have thought about it from both the grown up children's standpoint, and also the parents - so here's my tuppence worth.

*From the YOUNG ADULT's PERSPECTIVE:

• more expected from them - good grades, university, good job, blah blah. Its quite a lot of pressure in a way. There is a good side to it of course, I think my own potential was neglected, but there is also a downside. In my day 70s, early 80s only a minority were probably pressurised to "succeed". The rest bumbled along, and were often quite independent by 18 or 19. In the 1960s, a boy could probably leave school on the Friday aged 15 and walk into a full-time job on the Monday, and change it again if he didn't like it the following week.

• also other expectations - especially for girls - looking good and must have great social media profile, social life, and a boyfriend seem to be more expected. Nobody I knew cared a crap about that kind of thing when I was younger.

• materialism - much more materialistic. For even average lower middle class kids many expect designer labels and top phones! My own teenage DS has just spent £90 on a t-shirt - something I have never done even after working nearly 3 decades! Also, I lived in some pretty crappy flatshares when a student and worker in my 20s and 30s - I'm not sure that would be acceptable now to many young people who have higher expectations.

Could this all be creating a kind of hysteria?! Even if it is an "entitled" hysteria.

• some teenagers and young adults do have some milder mental health issues which make them difficult to live with. In previous times they would be out in the world and it would not be something the parents would have to deal with on such a regular basis.

FROM THE PARENT's PERSPECTIVE

• There's just less respect for parents. I am sometimes shocked at the way children and teens speak to their parents (including my own!). I think there is just a lack of respect all round. Not all teens are like this of course, TG, but it is much more common.

• Parents are more amibtious for their children perhaps, reaching their potential, etc etc? Nothing wrong with that exactly, but it can mean the children are tied to their parents for several years after reaching adulthood, as they are more financially vulnerable, etc. and need their parents' help with college, rent, etc etc.

• Parents are nearly always told now to put their children first no matter what - MN is a good place to see this view regularly. Any parent who objects is often trolled as a Bad, Selfish Parent. Putting up with teenage disrespect and even abuse is often seen as part of the 'parent' job description as Little Johnny goes through his teenage decade years ...

I hope OP sorts things out, I'm sure she will. I for one have often felt the need to rant about my teenager, and in the morning I am glad when I haven't gone on MN to do this - as its usually solved in some way and I haven't had to go through the added distress of being attacked as a person by strangers as well.

But OP does raise interesting and important issues. I think common sense and awareness can save the day, but I think it is much more demanding for parents to have to work it all out. Good luck, if she's still reading.

P.S. And all the Landlord Guarantor thing - an awful development. All my years of renting as a student and adult I never had to get anyone to sign for this. Only in the previous few years of renting have I been asked for this. Interesting to know about this issue as being widespread for students as well, its an unfortunate development .

We instill values in our kids so is it not a parenting failure if they don't grow up to be respectful, grateful and responsible?

Agree, thats all you can do/ try to do.

Well if you won't act as guarantor for your own child, then who do you expect will? We've put 2 DC through university and obviously we were/are guarantors, but made sure the tenancies they signed were INDIVIDUAL TENANCY AGREEMENTS, in that way you are not liable for the shenanigans of the other housemates (and we've seen some shenanigans believe me). Youngest recently had an issue with 2 housemates who decided in July (after having already signed the contract for the academic year just about to start) that they were moving out. Student adviser told all 4 of them to move out so the Lettings Agent could remarket the whole property but we, and another set of parents, said 'Nope, not happening, our kids are settled and are honouring their contract and we don't want the cost or the hassle of moving again thanks very much'. The two who broke the contract were in danger of their guarantors being called upon to pay the rent, even if they no longer lived there, but because the tenancy agreements are all individual we are in no danger of having to cough up for their rent. They have been in a complete panic but have now found their own replacements. They needed to learn you can't just break a legally binding contract and expect everyone else to deal with the fall-out.

Well if you won't act as guarantor for your own child, then who do you expect will?

OP CAN’T AFFORD IT! Sorry for caps but it’s been said so many times on the thread!

thanks goodness for my parents is what im left thinking from this thread.they thought nothing of being my sibs gaurantors.and im more grateful for the relationship we have

OP CAN’T AFFORD IT! Sorry for caps but it’s been said so many times on the thread!

Hecky - agree. But judgey people never read the thread, and are never interested in anyone else's views. Its almost not worth reading MN now, as this is what happens. Frustrating and upsetting for the OP, as it sometimes seems people deliberately misunderstand and make the OP out to be a bad person. Maybe they get a kick out of it .

Also, again people not reading the original post, the OP was most upset (understandably) about the way her DD rudely demanded the money.

Sorry, I hadn't read the full thread, but the question still stands; who does she expect to act as guarantor for her child? I can't imagine my DC saying 'Mum I've got this guarantor form that needs signing', and me saying 'Well don't look at me sunshine'. I'm assuming the OP's daughter will have the full maintenance loan which should cover the rent, so there's nothing for OP to afford as long as her DD has an individual tenancy agreement not a joint one.

My mum was a single parent when I was uni age, working in a minimum wage job and wouldn’t be able to afford to be a guarantor.

I knew she couldn’t magic up money out of thin air so I took responsibility for myself.

Whether the OP would like to help or not is irrelevant as she can’t afford to be the guarantor. The DD could get ill, drop out, have a big party and trash the place.

The number one rule of budgeting is not to commit to expenses you can’t afford.

To add, that includes not commiting to potential expenses you can’t affoes.

Some people have no real experience of life outside their own narrow experience of pleasant teens and plenty of money, Hecky - so you are unfortuantely probably wasting your breath! Oh well.

Ha yep, unfortunately seems like that is true passa

Sometimes what happens is you adapt to the assumptions of those around you as you try to fit in.

If so many on here see acting as guarantor a fairly easy thing to do I guess the general belief among this girls peers is just so.

I know it as a very risky thing indeed. Although I'd only ever known it done for loans.

Liberal parenting is much to blame for ‘entitled little sh*ts.’ Traditional parenting set rules and boundaries, tolerated no backchat, imposed penalties for infringements, insisted on politeness to parents, siblings, friends and adults alike and such courtesies as ‘please’ and ‘thank you’. School rules were obeyed and teachers supported, often against the recalcitrant pupil.

Grim though this regime sounds it was easy for children and parents to deal with as it was the norm and parents backed each other up when children erred. Children knew where they were and could get on with the innocent enjoyment of their childhood. Depression, self harming and suicide were virtually unknown in most families.

I don’t blame modern parents for being liberal as it is now the fashion and strictness would be frowned upon - it might even attract a visit from Social Services. The horse is well and truly out of the stable.

However, in this casE all is not lost. The child in question is panicking and trying to assert a power she does not have as she cannot be her own guarantor and has no money. The OP should refuse to guarantee the accommodation in case she accidentally makes herself liable for all the flatmates who will, inevitably, flit without paying. She should be calm, reasonable and polite to her daughter and refuse to engage in any discussion unless the DD minds her manners. Then she should make some financially safe arrangement for her own DD (only) and insist on the child acknowledging her generosity with appreciation and thanks.

She should set out the ground rules for the future that the DD will treat her parents with respect and courtesy.

Of course she will grump and refuse at first. Quietly disengage until she comes round which, of course, she will do.

Depression, self harming and suicide were virtually unknown in most families

That's actually just flat out untrue. Suicide rates amongst young men peaked in the 1930s, and amongst young women in the 1960s. It just wasn't talked about then. Ditto depression and self harm. But the number of people finishing university in those halcyon days was much lower.

Yes suicide rates have reduced.

I'm not sure "liberal parenting" is the right term, Teacher22. True liberal parenting doesn't produce entitled children because it entails bringing children up to have liberal values, which would mean having consideration for others, helping the vulnerable, and really being the opposite of entitled.

🤦🏻‍♀️ only on mumsnet would people never consider being a guarantor for their student kids.

My dad was for me and I was never late with rent, but I neeeded that guarantor in place to ensure I had a roof over my head whilst I studied.

Yabu