Do you believe Women can't have penises?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really.... inspired by the recent sticker campaign.... "Women can't have penises" and "Some women have penises"....

Simple question - simple answer.

Me - Yes, I believe women can't have penises.

It's not hateful to know and express that women don't have penises.

Yet I understand that women who've been publicising this fact are being investigated for possible hate crimes, which I find extremely disturbing, not just for the implications re: the teaching of biology, issues re: women's health and so on...

Men have a penis. Women have a vagina.

Any very rare cases of intersex are irrelevant, but often cited to try to claim that a big hulking bloke is actually a woman because actually it's terribly complicated and confusing and 2% of the world are intersex honest guv, so we just can't possibly make any kind of pronouncement on the subject, just as we can't possibly decide that that big stripey thing with the sharp teeth is going to eat us.

Woman is a description of gender

So we're not even allowed to be women now, unless we're performing 'woman'.

A woman is an adult human female. What is so hard to understand about that?

Oh hang on, did some book some dude wrote quite a long time ago trump how people actually use the word in their everyday lives??

Because, you know, the world should abide by the rules in the dictionary - that man made book that was supposed to explain how words are actually used - rather than that book being rewritten each time a word acquires a new usage.

Fucking hell.

Frequency is the first person I’ve seen on MN describe exactly how I feel about the issue?

All of what women are saying about our rights, and similarly what trans people are saying about theirs can be said without vitriol.

I usually have one about three times a week. I'd have one twice a day if I could

I don't. But then I'm a vegetarian. How do you have them? Boiled or roasted?

RatRolyPoly - I understand what you're saying, but can't you see any potential difficulties for the "people previously defined as female" if the definition does change?

RatRolyPoly I think you are confusing being feminine with being a woman. I am a woman but I am not feminine. The fact that people occasionally think i look like a 15 year old boy does not make me any less a woman and if you think it does - shame on you!

A woman doesn't have a penis - the same as an intact man who wears a frock is not a woman.

Some women do naturally, organically have penises...

If they're currently pregnant with a male foetus

Otherwise, nope. Womanhood is a biological state of being. Stop eliding femininity and womanhood. It's as sexist as fuck to state that we have to be feminine in order to be a woman.

RatRolyPoly - I understand what you're saying, but can't you see any potential difficulties for the "people previously defined as female" if the definition does change

I don't think that is where Rat's investment lies.

Of course I don't believe it.
'Woman' = adult human female.
'Penis' = the male genital organ of higher invertebrates, carrying the duct for the transfer of sperm during copulation.
When in doubt, google is your friend.

I am a woman who has a penis. It is attached to my DP. End of

RatRolyPoly I think you are confusing being feminine with being a woman

I'm definitely not.

can't you see any potential difficulties for the "people previously defined as female" if the definition does change

I've spent a very long time both interrogating the potential issues and arguing them out with people on here. There is nothing insurmountable without a bit of common sense, sensible legislation and accountability on the part of private groups/venues for the safety of their patrons. All in all I think these things are both achievable and extremely beneficial, not only to the trans population but to both men and women alike who will all benefit from the eroding of gender constructs.

So no.

*Threads like this give Mumsnet a bad name.

Live and let live people. Love not hate.*

It's not hate to state the fact that women do not have a penis.

If a trans person called themselves a man or a woman then I'd call them that and respect it. But it doesn't change the fact they are trans and not biologically either a man or a woman.

Threads like this give Mumsnet a bad name.
Live and let live people. Love not hate.
So we should all be nice and fluffy and not discuss the vital issues that are affecting not just us as women ya know, adult human females but all future generations of women and not least our own daughters and granddaughters?
Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

To most people, and the dictionary, and the law, and biology, and medicine, woman means adult, human, female - ie. it's a descriptor of sex, not gender (which is an oppressive social construct and should be done away with entirely

This ^^

All in all I think these things are both achievable and extremely beneficial, not only to the trans population but to both men and women alike who will all benefit from the eroding of gender constructs

Oh absolutely re the end of gender constructs! But women still don't have penises. That's a biological fact.

If a trans person called themselves a man or a woman then I'd call them that and respect it. But it doesn't change the fact they are trans and not biologically either a man or a woman

The key word here is biologically.

Socially, they are a man or a woman as per what we all accept them to be.

Of course women can't have penises.
Men who identify as women and wish to be known as women can have penises. That's what a transwoman is.

If a trans person called themselves a man or a woman then I'd call them that and respect it

So would I - to be polite. But I wouldn't really believe it - because women don't have penises.

did some book some dude wrote quite a long time ago trump how people actually use the word in their everyday lives
The vast majority of people still use the words according to the dictionary definition though. But assuming they stop doing that, what new words would you suggest for -
Adult human female, and
Male genital organ?
Because those things will still need words to define them, and adult human females still won't have male genital organs, no matter what words you apply to them.

That's a biological fact.

Aaaand once again the key word here is "biological".

"Woman" is not a biological term. The term for an xx chromosonal human is female. "Woman" doesn't imply biological fact - why do you think it does? How have you been establishing these "facts" thus far?? Looks like that's where you're going wrong.

All in all I think these things are both achievable and extremely beneficial, not only to the trans population but to both men and women alike who will all benefit from the eroding of gender constructs.

But RatRolyPoly, what you are proposing would cement gender constructs by defining people by gender in law. You have stating that we should define people by how they look / present. What could be more gender binding than that?

i think this post was out to achieve nothing but inspire a sense of togetherness in the transphobic community. women CAN have penises. men CAN have vaginas. gender is not binary it is a spectrum and threads like this disregard the lives of anyone in the transgender community. Also there is a difference in linguistics - woman is referencing gender which is the mental whereas female is sex referencing the physical.