To be angry with my friend *TRIGGER* friend is ttc

[Brushedcottonpjs]

Friends since high school, very close during our teens/early 20's with nights out, holidaying, sharing everything etc. We were so close.

She helped me out in a massive way by employing me as her PA and things were so so good!

Friend had confided in me that she'd been ttc since they got married (now over 10 years ago) and we'd shed many tears together over it.
The time came for me and my dp to ttc and I told her that we were but didn't make a big deal of it to spare her feelings.
It took 18 months before I got pg, I told her quite early on partly for work reasons and partly because I didn't want her thinking I'd concealed my pg from her due to her still ttc.
Her reaction was mixed, as I expected and we had a few tears together about how it would be her too soon enough etc.

Since then she's changed. She began working from home a lot as my bump became more obvious, which was hard for me (no more long lunches, laughing and chatting etc) but I reasoned it was much, much harder for her to see me about to have a baby whilst wanting her own so desperately.
I went on mat leave and she went very low contact with me, the odd reply to my emails and being very busy if I wanted to visit her. She did call to my flat with cards/flowers etc for my birthday and when my ds was born. Always flying visits but I figured she would be struggling and was grateful to her for her efforts.

She then made me redundant at the end of my mat leave
Gave very good reasons and by the book etc but it was a blow.

The contact has remained similar but she has 'forgotten' both of my ds birthdays (my birthday is 2 weeks after his and she's called in with flowers for me on my birthday)

Was invited to a mutual friends housewarming last weekend and she was there with her dh.
We hugged warmly and chatted about her work and my new work etc then we were all sat in the lounge, about 15 of us.
Whilst I chatted to someone else I could see my ds trying to show her his toy, she was ignoring him, I could tell that she could see and hear him perfectly well but she just blanked him.
The host called over to her 'the little one wants to show you his toy'
She still didn't acknowledge him, she actually got up and went into the kitchen, her dh followed her. I assume she was upset.

Am I bu to be pissed off with this now? All that's happened since I got pg I've put up with and been as understanding as I can but for her to just ignore my little boy in front of everyone like that, has she gone too far now?

About 2 weeks later she came to see me, visibly upset, saying she was going to have to make my position redundant because the company couldn’t justify paying a PA when she’d just proven she could do the work herself

OMG, and you call that being made redundant “by the book”? Christ, I wouldn’t. It sounds like she made a concerted effort to elbow you out of your job.

I think yanbu to be angry with her.

She's suffering with accepting her own infertility but in shunning you and your children she's being ridiculous.

It's not your child she wants, it's her own. I've never understood why women get like this over other people's kids. Does she grudge every woman with kids she sees in the street too? No? So why you?

She's clearly not coping at all and I honestly think you and your children are far better off without her in your lives.

No matter what life throws at us there's never justification for treating friends the way she has done to you.

I suffered years of infertility too, never resolved and I suffered while friends announced pregnancy after pregnancy but not once did I behave like this.

She must be unhinged.

My mum died when I was a child. That makes me very sad. I and still capable of saying hello and having a conversation with my friends parents.

formerbabe
Having both lost my father as a child (mid teens) and had difficulty ttc, I can tell you the two are immensely different.

bananafish1
Thank you for sharing.

Dd was born after three egg implantations - done abroad as I lived abroad. I met a British woman also living abroad at the start of my first round of ivf. She was on her 10th cycle. Before talking to her, I initially thought perhaps we could be friends through the process. But clearly she wasn’t in the position to make friends only to see them have healthy ivf pregnancies babies and her on her 12th cycle or something. I do sometimes think about her and wonder if she succeeded. Poor woman.

Brushedcotton
It does sound as if it was too painful for you friend to have you around the office. It’s very sad when friends can’t or won’t connect anymore for a variety of reasons. I understand your pain at having your child ignored. However I don’t think we can truly understand how difficult it is to not be able to have a child and not want to come to terms with this. However painful it is to be cut off from a friendship, this must be so much worse.

'Does she grudge every woman with kids she sees in the street too? No? '

Yes, maybe. I hated every woman I saw who had kids when I was at my lowest. The envy and the pain were unbearable. She's clearly suffering, and calling her unhinged is very unfair

Please keep the miracle stories and the suggestions to 'just adopt' while you're at it. You never hear the stories from the couples who didn't get their baby, because stories like that don't give anyone the warm fuzzies. Not everyone gets their happy ending or their 'turn'.

There's a lot of patronising stuff on this thread about being infertile. The majority of women deal with their infertility in private and don't involve other people. They might hurt or feel,devastated when you turn up with your bump or your child but are perfectly capable of holding it together and not behaving badly whilst in the company of pregnancy or children.

Being infertile does not give you the right to be rude. Having children does not give you the right to expect everyone else to take any notice of your child. If you saw someone ignoring your child, clearly not wanting to interact with them, that is your cue to call your child back to you or distract them. Alternatively she could have said, that's nice go and show it to [whoever]

Either way she clearly doesn't want to have a relationship with you now so just leave her to it and get on with your life.

She needs some kind of help if she is going to act like this your entire existence should not be centred around whether or not you can have a child

And I would not be friends with someone who a, lost me my job and b, ignored my innocent child

"She must be unhinged."

I'm sure she knows rationally that nobody else's fertility has an effect on hers, but she probably doesn't think/feel rationally about it.

You should have called your child away and distracted him at the gathering. She couldn't have made it any clearer that she didn't want to interact with him. Are you always so self absorbed?

You should have called your child away and distracted him at the gathering. She couldn't have made it any clearer that she didn't want to interact with him. Are you always so self absorbed?

I've been out plenty of times when someone's children have spoken to me...of course, we're not really interested in their plastic dinosaur or Barbie doll with missing head but most of us will say 'oh wow, it's wonderful, I love it' smile sweetly and go back to our conversation. It's normal social etiquette.

She needs some kind of help

I'm sure she badly needs help

I questioned what the point of living was, and what difference would it make if I wasn't here any more, because I didn't have children. I needed therapy and anti depressants (though I still struggle with gatherings with kids)

I've no doubt she is in need of help

I'm not trying to excuse her behaviour. I've bolted out of a room in tears at parties, but wouldnt simply blank someone child. Although I supposed running out in floods of tears before acknowledging a friend's child showing me their toy might be seen that way. Redundancy is a completely different kettle of fish entirely, that's an awful situation

I hope OP's friend is able to get the help and support she evidently needs.

We all want people to love and interact with our children but some people just don't want to. In her case it might actually still be excruciating to have to be put on the spot and look happy and chatter to a little one, she probably thought "fuck it, no I'm not joining in because I don't get to play the game". She can't control her fertility but she can control how she interacts with children - by choosing not to. Yup, rude but understandable.

Or maybe she's come to terms with it and just doesn't like other people's kids - I know I'm not that interested in other people's.

Also if you've not had them it's easy to ignore them (I'm sure I did pre kids) because whatever they're doing isn't on your radar, so she might just have been otherwise occupied.

It would seem to be safest to just avoid opportunities to meet up in the future as she's certainly irritating you. I've a child free relative of a similar age to me (fortunately they didn't want kids, as far as I know) and they haven't a clue how to be around my kids. And their house is pure white with breakable things at floor level. We don't visit much and I think everyone's happy with that tbh...

YANBU to be upset. It sounds like she needs professional help because she is likely to end up very isolated if she drives people away who have children. However, the decision to ask for help is hers and hers alone. I wouldn’t invest any more time in this friendship OP. It will only end up hurting you. I wouldn’t tolerate rudeness.

I once had to make someone redundant shortly after them returning from ML and I too had the "its because you're jealous as she has a baby and you are barren" thrown at me. It wasn't at all, the company was suffering financially and we couldn't afford her position anymore.
It's shit, but it happens.

I also ignore children and have arranged my life so I have minimal contact with children. Obviously I can't avoid the ones I see in public, but in private - in my house or others, I don't want to interact with them. My friends are mostly childless or have older children who they don't need to bring to social events. I am NC with my brother and his children, but I have a teenage niece on my partner's side. Teenagers I can deal with. Young children and babies, no. I do this to protect my mental health. I spent years being constantly upset and suffering from depression because of my inability to conceive and I've now, mostly come to terms with that by living a life that is rich, interesting and joyful - but doesn't include children.

If people want to judge me for that, then crack on.

She has been ttc for 10 years. You have no idea of the expense (maybe why she could t afford to keep you on any longer?), invasive procedures and disappointment and despair every single month. And yet she's a cunt.

It’s very sad that the friendship is over.

The host was U at the gathering at the host’s home, not your former friend. Lots of people don’t want to engage - at all - with others’ toddlers! Toddlers, even when behaving well, can be tiresome for some people at an adult-oriented event. Not everyone can be arsed even pretending to engage with them! It was rude of the host to comment on it in front of people, especially when she presumably knew your friend has fertility issues.

Some of your comments, eg that you said you hoped it’d be be her turn soon, suggest you lack awareness of long term fertility issues.

You sound to have been very generous about your redundancy. Glad you have a good job now!

I know this isn't the case in this situation, but sometimes people just don't like kids.

I find the notion that as a parent, if someone isn't actively engaging your child, you would not only allow them to continue intruding on someone's space but find it offensive or upsetting that they don't engage, baffling.

It might be normal social etiquette but the OP knew that this woman didn't want to interact with the child because of previous experience so why she's gone and let him hassle this woman with a toy when she was clearly upset God only knows. She should have distracted him and moved him away, as you would with any child who is being a nuisance.

She has been ttc for 10 years. You have no idea of the expense (maybe why she could t afford to keep you on any longer?), invasive procedures and disappointment and despair every single month. And yet she's a cunt.

Perhaps? Just because she is going through a hard time, it doesn't necessarily make her a nice person. Nice people don't have the monopoly on tragedy.

YY to stopping the miracle baby stories and the "there's always hope".

I went through years of IVF and had all sorts of shit like this, from getting told to go on holiday to stupid stories about other people. "...and then their dog got run over and it happened" was one. Recently a woman who doesn't know started telling me about someone she knew which finished up with "...and they moved to Australia and got pregnant". Moving continents or a pet dying wasn't going to magically transport gametes through my surgically removed tubes.

I'd guess a lot of folk who can't concieve would be reluctant to tell someone who repeated this sort of nonsense that they were doing fertility treatment, which might account for some of the "miracles".

Anyway OP, I think your friendship has run its course. I'd have been more annoyed about the redundancy and think she genuinely would have struggled with being forced to interact with your child with people watching. But there's no point trying to prolong things.

I was told by someone about someone they knew who went camping for the first time and got pregnant. Don’t these people realise they are trivialising the person’s pain by trotting out these stories?

Your friend was me 3 years ago. I couldnt cope with seeing children. Then i got dd. I had a friend who early on told me she couldnt cope with seeing dd. She had our dd and meet my dd aged 2. Please dont under estimate the pain. Not everyone is as lucky as i was in the end! I never ever judge anyone who cant talk to a child in this situation.

audit

She made op redundant after her maternity leave. Given her subsequent behaviour, it seems extremely unlikely that it wasn’t directly caused by the op having a baby.

Fertility issues, indeed any sort of medical or situational issue, don’t preclude people from being cunts.

So many feelings, conditions or situations these days demand other people are expected respect and make allowances. This is the sign of a civilised society we're told.

even when people 'feel' as if they're something they're not

But a woman struggling with fertility must suck it up and pull herself together. Apparently. And respond to other people's toddlers demands for attention even if it means holding back tears in front of company. After all it's really no different to wishing you had a better car a holiday or to find a boyfriend ...

I think it is a shame for both of you but given your ex friend cannot seem to deal with seeing other people with kids I think the friendship has to end. I get why it would be difficult but somehow or other she will need to work through this as ignoring all friends and relatives with small children is difficult for most of us unless we become reclusives. Ignoring a small child is not on though so I think she was out of order. It matters not whether he will remember or not it was rude but I guess a certain degree of understanding is needed here. I think you need to move on. Hopefully you have found another job. Making you redundant after maternity leave is bad so I think she was extracting revenge there for you having a baby or is saying she finds it too difficult to be around you now. Either of those is unacceptable reasons for making you redundant and I would have asked for a transfer within the same company.

You should have called your child away and distracted him at the gathering. She couldn't have made it any clearer that she didn't want to interact with him. Are you always so self absorbed?

Often there will be children out and about who will chat to you, or show you something and I think its just quite cruel to ignore them regardless of how uninterested you are. A little kindness costs nothing.

The thing with life is there is always someone more fortunate than you. If the jealousy eats you up to the point where social contact is that hard then intervention/counselling is obviously needed.

OP I would cut your losses she quite clearly isn't interested in the friendship.

I was with you until you said how long it's been going on. I was exactly the same when I had secondary infertility and multiple miscarriages. For my own mental health I had to guard myself from pregnancy and newborns. But to take it to the point where your child is old enough to have a birthday and to know acknowledge your child in person? That is rude and imo not ok.
I hope she considers adoption. A friend of mine had to watch woman after woman get pregnant at work and go on mat leave as she failed to get pregnant and then had IVF failures as well.
She and her dh did all the adoption classes, decided it was for them and in the process realised that the baby part wasn't that important to them and they'd prefer a child.
They were matched with two amazing children and it makes me tear up every time I see my rainbow baby, (finally conceived after gynae surgery) playing with her little ones. Especially as she had the pain of watching me go through pregnancy and then bringing a newborn into the office.
I've always said she is an amazing lady as I just couldn't cope with it as well as she did and I only struggled for a few years not 10. Your ex friend sounds like she needs some counselling, I found it helpful, and maybe to think about other ways of creating that family she craves.
But YANBU to be pissed off as it's been a long time now.