To be angry with my friend *TRIGGER* friend is ttc

[Brushedcottonpjs]

Friends since high school, very close during our teens/early 20's with nights out, holidaying, sharing everything etc. We were so close.

She helped me out in a massive way by employing me as her PA and things were so so good!

Friend had confided in me that she'd been ttc since they got married (now over 10 years ago) and we'd shed many tears together over it.
The time came for me and my dp to ttc and I told her that we were but didn't make a big deal of it to spare her feelings.
It took 18 months before I got pg, I told her quite early on partly for work reasons and partly because I didn't want her thinking I'd concealed my pg from her due to her still ttc.
Her reaction was mixed, as I expected and we had a few tears together about how it would be her too soon enough etc.

Since then she's changed. She began working from home a lot as my bump became more obvious, which was hard for me (no more long lunches, laughing and chatting etc) but I reasoned it was much, much harder for her to see me about to have a baby whilst wanting her own so desperately.
I went on mat leave and she went very low contact with me, the odd reply to my emails and being very busy if I wanted to visit her. She did call to my flat with cards/flowers etc for my birthday and when my ds was born. Always flying visits but I figured she would be struggling and was grateful to her for her efforts.

She then made me redundant at the end of my mat leave
Gave very good reasons and by the book etc but it was a blow.

The contact has remained similar but she has 'forgotten' both of my ds birthdays (my birthday is 2 weeks after his and she's called in with flowers for me on my birthday)

Was invited to a mutual friends housewarming last weekend and she was there with her dh.
We hugged warmly and chatted about her work and my new work etc then we were all sat in the lounge, about 15 of us.
Whilst I chatted to someone else I could see my ds trying to show her his toy, she was ignoring him, I could tell that she could see and hear him perfectly well but she just blanked him.
The host called over to her 'the little one wants to show you his toy'
She still didn't acknowledge him, she actually got up and went into the kitchen, her dh followed her. I assume she was upset.

Am I bu to be pissed off with this now? All that's happened since I got pg I've put up with and been as understanding as I can but for her to just ignore my little boy in front of everyone like that, has she gone too far now?

I think there are a range of views on this thread - all valid.

But, OP, if you ever go through anything as devastating and life changing as what your friend's been though, and it affected your behaviour...do you think your friend would be as understanding as you have been about it? If you're not sure then maybe give her the benefit of the doubt and keep seeing her on her terms. If not, then I think you have to let this one slide

Also while you can understand and empathise with her behaviour, YANBU to feel angry, the two aren't mutually exclusive

I'm with Meringue on both counts. I think OP it depends on how important it is for you to maintain this friendship too and, from what you've said, breaking off the friendship will cause you pain. Could you not try to have an honest conversation with her about it all? Voice how what happened at the housewarming hurt you, but also check in with her on how this is all affecting her? Ask her if it would be easier for her if you just cooled off the friendship and stepped away or, if not and you both want to continue, how you can best support her and avoid these things happening in future. She definitely needs some counselling (if she isn't having it already) to help her deal with the infertility issues and stop it ruining the other relationships in her life (I suspect her relationship with her husband is also feeling the pressure). Good luck with it OP. You sound like a good friend trying to do the best thing, but obviously you want to protect your own family and relationships and you can't live her life for her.

She definitely needs some counselling (if she isn't having it already) to help her deal with the infertility issues and stop it ruining the other relationships in her life (I suspect her relationship with her husband is also feeling the pressure).

On what basis do you think her marriage is struggling?

Well PurpleDaisies infertility can put a lot of pressure on a relationship, and have been the cause of relationship break downs, so it is possible.

I know that aeroflot (card carrying member of the Uber barren club here) but there’s nothing in the op’s posts to suggest marriage troubles.

She definitely needs some counselling (if she isn't having it already) to help her deal with the infertility issues and stop it ruining the other relationships in her life (I suspect her relationship with her husband is also feeling the pressure).

Pure speculation on your part. Nothing in the OP to suggest it.

I think that the poster is presuming there might be. What is evident is that the friend is finding this understandably very hard, and still very raw, and does need some sort of professional help. Life is full of kids, and her friend who haven't got children, might do in the future, which will ruin her friendships if she avoids them.

@Karmagician you assume her marriage is struggling because of this?!!! Wow!! Any more cliches you'd like to throw out there? My experience of couple who are in a situation where they've accepted there will be no children is that they often have the strongest relationships, partly because they've helped each other on the journey. Do you assume that her husband doesn't find being around children upsetting? I can tell you that my husband finds it a damn site harder than I do!

I agree that the OP is not BU for being a bit hurt that her child was ignored, as stated, the feelings on both sides don't make either of their feeling / actions wrong, but the overwhelming lack of empathy on this thread is genuinely vile. This is why this woman had to quietly control her feelings and walk out. It'd be "shocking" and make everyone in the room uncomfortable (and god forbid barren women make others feel uncomfortable!!) if she'd sat there and said 'oh god, I can't cope being in the room with this child, I'm trying to relax and have a nice time but I'm so upset and feel like my heart has been ripped out, I'm having a bad day and this child is making it worse for me." Because that's how she's feeling. I bet none of the mums in the room didn't not talk about difficult behaviour/being tired/general child related moans which mums (quite rightly) constantly do, because they're allowed to air their bad days in public.

I'm leaving this thread now. I just hope some of the haters start to understand what empathy actually is.

I think that the poster is presuming there might be.

And that’s ok is it? For people to just assume that infertile couples must be struggling in their marriage?

It’s totally out of order to suggest that apropos of absolutely nothing at all.

It is not impossible for relationships to feel the strain, mine certainly did during the five years it took to conceive ds, and me harming my body because it was letting me down.

Of course it isn’t aeroflot, but it’s ridiculous into just jump to that conclusion based on what’s been said here.

No it's not impossible to feel strain, a majority of couples will feel strain when TTC for a long time, but we're talking about a coup who have already gone through that stage and out the other side. This is what many seem to be struggling to understand, if you have struggled to conceive, and then had a child, no one is taking away that they journey was very hard, but by the very fact that a child was produced, they will never understand the next stage, the beyond TTC accepting no child stage. The stage where couples have to really face how strong their relationship is, are they really sure they're happy with a life of just the two of them forever. This stage is why the relationships at this point are often extremely strong.

OP unlike other forms of bereavement. The pain of infertility can get worse not better over time. And with it mental health and wellbeing suffers enormously too.

There's no shortage of people on this thread telling you she's being unreasonable. But you emphasize that she was a very good friend. Her behaviour is likely bourne of an unbearable all-consuming grief about her situation. If you want to be kind to her I'd be cutting her more slack not less as time goes on.

It may be that she needs distance between her and children in which case you could accept that's what she needs and let her know you'll be there for her later if she wants.

Well PurpleDaisies infertility can put a lot of pressure on a relationship, and have been the cause of relationship break downs, so it is possible.

It is absolutely possible. Many relationships don't survive long term infertility

But equally, it is also very possible that this experience can bring couples even closer

Throughout the many many responses to the (anonymous) questionnaire for my book about the real, unvarnished, warts-and-all experience of infertility and pregnancy loss, the thing that has shone through in the responses to the question about how infertility has affected relationships with your partner, family and friends, has been that although many relationships with friends have broken down for similar reasons to what it sounds like the OP's friend is experiencing (needing to withdraw from friends with young children as a means of self protection, much like a heroin addict removes themselves from friends who are still using, it's too harmful for their mental health), many many women have said that their relationships with their partner have got even stronger, that their shared experience has brought them closer together.

We have no idea whether or not this is the case with the OP's friend and her husband - but whilst it's certainly possible they are having problems (and OP I'm sure wouldn't suggest they may be having issues unless she had good reason to think this), it's just worth saying that it's not necessarily a given.

to all those members of uber barrens club, the club no one wants to join

Leave her be. I have a friend who has never been able to have a child. We saw very little of each other as my dc grew up but now they are grown up we are good friends again although we live a long way away so don’t meet that often.

Your child is a huge trigger for her pain. Just accept that and be graceful. The fact that she’s still friendly towards you when your dc is there indicates that it’s nith personal at all. She simply cannot bear the pain of being around your child. Perhaps as a close friend the pain is intensified?

My SIL couldn’t be near her own sister when she couldn’t conceive and her sister was pregnant with no 3.

Cross post with bluemoon. What she said!

When you have to face that your grief may have meant the breakdown of friendships, and that 'family' is likely to mean you and your partner alone, and not the family you'd dreamed of (as parents of a much longed for child) - you can often withdraw from the world into a cocoon with your partner, becoming closer in ways you didn't expect or imagine.

OP, you’ve been a good friend and understanding and supportive of the friend’s difficulties, and been very understanding when she’s done seemingly unacceptable things like make you redundant. If you feel her apparently ignoring your child is a step too far then fair enough. We’ve all got our red lines. If this is yours then it’s time to just let the friendship slip.

Infertility is a kind of bereavement. But unlike a death where you can begin to heal, it goes on and on with ever dwindling hope.

Yes this exactly. This is certainly my experience Italiangreyhound - you've expressed it perfectly

When we came to the end of the road, and Drs on both sides of the Atlantic had confirmed there was no point continuing with treatment as my womb was unable to support a pregnancy, DH said to me that we would have to accept that when I said 'we can't have children' that people wouldn't recognise it as a bereavement in the same way they do when I say that I lost my mother. That people just wouldn't understand the depths of this grief - because there was nothing visible to mourn

I nursed my beloved mum in her last days, and held her hand when she died. I can say hand on heart that the grief of losing her was a walk in the park compared to the grief of not being able to have children

There's a natural order to death of a parent. No parent should have to bury a child, but we do expect that as children we will one day have to bury our parents. My darling mum was taken far too soon, and I miss her everyday. But she is gone. I have to accept that she is never coming back. I mourn her loss but I treasure the memories of the time we had together and of a life well lived.

With infertility you are in a never ending cycle of hope and hopelessness, grieving for the lives that never were, grieving for the loss of hopes and dreams of children you'll never meet. You can't accept it and move on because everyone always wants to tell you about their friend's friend who was told they would never have children and now they have a miracle baby. You can't accept involuntary childlessness and try to move on, because however much you can rationalise that you must come to terms with never becoming a mother, you always hope that you'll be one of those miracle stories that people will post about on threads like this.

bananafish81 I am so sorry to hear your story.

I think it actually is quite easy to avoid babies, kids and pregnant women, if you have no kids you just avoid those places they are likely to be and of course you don't need to interact with a pregnant women in McDonalds or whatever.

Feel I need to come clean about my experience because my period of infertility was relatively brief, two years of trying with assisted conception and then a rough pregnancy with potential miscarriage, a difficult birth and then I was a mum.

For me it was secondary infertility, as it is sometimes called, which was actually very mentally trying.

We wanted another child, I had a miscarriage and then went through over six years of treatment which included donor eggs and cost thousands. It was all very stressful but I will never know how awful it is for other people to go on their journey because we had a child.

We ended up adopting when our child was 9 (a three year old boy). I know my situation is very different to others who have talked of fertility issues and I just wanted to explain because although different I felt some of the feelings.

Well remember the stress, the anxiety, the sadness when the treatment failed. One friend said to me, you must be disappointed. I wanted to say 'I am devastated.'

I do feel happy now and at peace but all the treatment, waiting and trying took over about 9 years of our lives. It did put a massive strain on our marriage.

There is a line in the film Clockwise, I can't remember exactly but I think it's where John Clease is in the bath a the monastery and realizes he still has time to make the meeting. He says “It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand."

www.goodreads.com/quotes/246147-it-s-not-the-despair-laura-i-can-take-the-despair

I just want to say or send something like a hug to women and men struggling with this, but even as I type I realize how fucking inadequate that is.

If my post has upset anyone or anyone wants to chat about it, please do PM me. I know we were very lucky and even that means people may not want to speak to me! I just wanted to express one side of one kind of journey to parenting.

@Italiangreyhound xxx

I'm struggling to see how anyone could think she was being rude. I'm lucky enough to have not have had any real issues conceiving. That said I would never expect people (especially those without children) to want to interact with my child, and don't feel that they should. It's not an obligation of everyone to interact with children. OP should've seen that she didn't want to, especially given she knew her struggles and immediately removed her child from her. They may be the centre of your world, but they are not the centre of everyone else's world. And many people, infertility issues or not - have no interest in children! Fair enough!

You have no idea what is going on in people's lives, and in reality I think she behaved extremely well by completely removing herself from the situation rather than sit and continue to ignore.

I have had miscarriages in the past, which are nothing compared to long term fertility, but there's no way I could've been around my friends with babies around that time without really struggling, so I removed myself from the situation to avoid awkward situations. Exactly like she did.

I don't think anyone apart from those going through it can understand what being infertile feels like, and how hard life must be to constantly see children and be reminded.

So yes OP yabu - it's sad your friendship may not be able to continue but you have to give her the space she needs to survive and come to terms with her life.

Stonking post greyhound and that quote resonates with me too. As for responses to my earlier post, just to be clear that i was suggesting that the friend could probably benefit from some counselling, (not the OP!) and may be feeling the pressure in her closest relationships. The OP didn't suggest this in her post, no, although as she is no longer close to her friend she maybe wouldn't be aware of this anyway, but I accept that this is pure speculation so apologies if I offended anyone. However, as the OP and her friend were previously able to confide in and support each other in their TTC journeys it is quite feasible that the friend will now feel that she can no longer do that with OP, as she is no longer 'on the same page', - hence counselling might give her a space to express whatever she is feeling without judgement or fear of hurting anyone else.

@Italiangreyhound that's such a brilliant post and I couldn't agree more about the quote. It's one I refer to a lot, because it's so very very apt

Your wonderfully kind words are anything but inadequate - and I'm sure I speak for many other uber barrens when I say that it really does help, and your thoughts and virtual hug do mean a great deal

bananafish81 thank you, I am selling up.