To be angry with my friend *TRIGGER* friend is ttc

[Brushedcottonpjs]

Friends since high school, very close during our teens/early 20's with nights out, holidaying, sharing everything etc. We were so close.

She helped me out in a massive way by employing me as her PA and things were so so good!

Friend had confided in me that she'd been ttc since they got married (now over 10 years ago) and we'd shed many tears together over it.
The time came for me and my dp to ttc and I told her that we were but didn't make a big deal of it to spare her feelings.
It took 18 months before I got pg, I told her quite early on partly for work reasons and partly because I didn't want her thinking I'd concealed my pg from her due to her still ttc.
Her reaction was mixed, as I expected and we had a few tears together about how it would be her too soon enough etc.

Since then she's changed. She began working from home a lot as my bump became more obvious, which was hard for me (no more long lunches, laughing and chatting etc) but I reasoned it was much, much harder for her to see me about to have a baby whilst wanting her own so desperately.
I went on mat leave and she went very low contact with me, the odd reply to my emails and being very busy if I wanted to visit her. She did call to my flat with cards/flowers etc for my birthday and when my ds was born. Always flying visits but I figured she would be struggling and was grateful to her for her efforts.

She then made me redundant at the end of my mat leave
Gave very good reasons and by the book etc but it was a blow.

The contact has remained similar but she has 'forgotten' both of my ds birthdays (my birthday is 2 weeks after his and she's called in with flowers for me on my birthday)

Was invited to a mutual friends housewarming last weekend and she was there with her dh.
We hugged warmly and chatted about her work and my new work etc then we were all sat in the lounge, about 15 of us.
Whilst I chatted to someone else I could see my ds trying to show her his toy, she was ignoring him, I could tell that she could see and hear him perfectly well but she just blanked him.
The host called over to her 'the little one wants to show you his toy'
She still didn't acknowledge him, she actually got up and went into the kitchen, her dh followed her. I assume she was upset.

Am I bu to be pissed off with this now? All that's happened since I got pg I've put up with and been as understanding as I can but for her to just ignore my little boy in front of everyone like that, has she gone too far now?

I'd cut her some slack. I think you should have called your little boy over to you.

It must have been like a knife to the chest for her when your little boy was trying to interact with her.

I couldn’t disagree more. Yes, her infertility must be indescribably painful for her, but does that really mean she cannot interact with a child of any age, ever? It’s mean to ignore a little kid who’s innocently trying to talk to you. That child is not responsible for your pain.

OP, I would have considered the friendship all but over as soon as she withdrew during your pregnancy. Making you redundant, however “by the book” it may have been, would have been the last straw.

I would quietly go NC now. I doubt she’d notice.

YANBU that she ignored your baby
and you should definitely be more pissed off that she made you redundant.

however YABU that she forgot your ds's birthday. Why should she?
I don't remember my friends' children's birthdays... just my friends'!

Yes, her infertility must be indescribably painful for her, but does that really mean she cannot interact with a child of any age, ever?

In the course of her daily life, it’s entirely possible that she doesn’t need to interact with a child.

I find this so odd. She was upset and you're concerned about your child's feelings in that moment, which I would put money on him having no memory or long-lasting effect of the incident. Adults ignore young children all. the. time. Even parents for their own sanity sometimes!! If you could see she was ignoring or annoyed by him you should have called him over or helped her out a little! I hate it when parents dump
children on other people like that when you can clearly see they are uncomfortable. Like everyone should love your child as much as you! No.

More importantly - she has 'forgotten' both of my ds birthdays. Are you for real? I couldn't tell you any of my friends childrens birthday. Why should I remember or really care for that matter? They aren't my own children.

YABU.

She wasn't ignoring your child to hurt your child (it won't bother him that much) or to hurt you. She just couldn't cope with. it probably hurts more than seeing other children as he is your child, she knows you so well, and she can feel your joy and your family life, the one she craves so much, so much more vividly.

She desperately wants a child of her own to show her his toys, to share with her his enthusiasms and joys and interests. I totally get why she found that situation at the party too, too much. It wasn't about your child or you, it was about the child and all those small moments of joyful life that she will never have, suddenly being in front of her, talking to her, like some ghost of the Christmas that will never come, and her having to face its emptiness from her life.

It was clearly unbearable for her.

And at some point you have to get past the idea that just because you can’t have one that gives you the right to ignore/avoid/be rude to anyone who might have what you don’t. Where does that end? I can’t get a job so I should be entitled to cut off friendships with anyone else who has one? I will never have a lifestyle which affords me decent holidays so I can behave like a dick to anyone who can afford them? Err no.

There's a difference between struggling to be around something because it's so very very painful, and being a dick

I've withdrawn from many of my friends during our infertility journey, and especially coming to terms with the fact I now know I will never be able to carry a child, and my unsuccessful pregnancies are as pregnant as I'm ever going to get

I've not ignored friends but I have tried to politely explain why I don't feel strong enough to come to their BBQ where everyone is there with their kids and we'd be surrounded by happy families, with children the same age as we'd have had if our IVF had been successful. They have been understanding and know that I'm not trying to be a dick, but that it's like inviting an alcoholic to a wine tasting - it's going to be excruciatingly painful

They've given me space and time to try and come to terms with not being able to have children

And I may well be a shit friend for withdrawing from people I love, when I'd love nothing more than not to be running to cry in the loos when friends are cuddling their kids and talking about life as parents and I'm the lonely barren in the corner. I'd love to be bright and bounce and chatting happily and not trying to make my excuses and leave

My friends have been there for me and know that I'm not trying to cut them out, but I'm struggling with a grief so deep that makes me question what the point of me being alive is, if I can't have children. If that makes me a selfish dick, then I guess I'm a selfish dick

I’m sympathetic to her but I think this was a bit U. At the end of the day tho it’s obviously very painful for her and only she can work through these feelings and find a different way to deal with them. Maybe she will do that or maybe she won’t. In the meantime I wouldnt want my DC being ignored so you can either meet without your DC or distance yourself until your friend is better able to handle her feelings. I think I’d go for the latter tbh

I don't think you're being unreasonable.

I have a broadly similar situation actually.

One of my closest friends started ignoring me the day I told her I was pregnant. We live very close and would often be on the same tube to work- a couple of times she literally turned her back to avoid talking to me. Im fairly sure she has been ttc and this caused it but she won't talk about it.
Another friend has a baby slightly older than mine and she's very keen on spending time with her. However with my DD, she's met him about 3 times and once he was trying to reach up to her and waving and she ignored him and refused to acknowledge him in any way. I've asked her why she's changed her behaviour and she refuses to accept she has it's totally crazy.
If she just acknowledged that she finds it hard to be around us for a particular reason there may be some friendship to salvage at some point but her saying there isn't and acting like it's all in my head shows me it's beyond all repair, and she needs serious counselling.
I'm trying to let it go but it's so frustrating.

How about a message saying you really miss her friendship, but that you understand it must be hard for her seeing you with your DS. You'd love to try and salvage the friendship, but you understand if she doesn't want to remain in contact any longer.

bananafish you're not a selfish dick.

I'm so truly sorry that you're in this situation.

@betterwithoutyou yes, I have to agree. I can see this now. It’s such a shame that we’ll probably go our separate ways now but it’s understandable I guess.

I think the OP has been incredibly understanding.

”There's a difference between struggling to be around something because it's so very very painful, and being a dick” unfortunately sometimes one leads to the other.

Ignoring a small child deliberately even when someone has pointed out said child is trying to gain your attention is being a twat of the highest order even if she’s upset.

And this is a woman who made someone redundant after she returned from a pregnancy, would someone e.g. argue that it was because the OP had had a baby and she couldn’t have one? I bet there are people who would.

I wouldn’t necessarily have expected her to remember the child’s birthday but I suspect the OP is equating all her behaviours with the same issue iyswim.

@bananafish81
Thank you for taking the time to offer your story.
It does help to hear a perspective from you.

Quite surprised at the responses, to be honest.

You could say:
*my friend has remembered my birthdays, come round with gifts for me each time
*she gave me a lovely present when I had my DS
*she has met up with me frequently
*we had a lovely catch up at a mutual friend's bbq

On the redundancy point, you don't give many details. But she may have waited to make you redundant so that you got your maternity leave pay in full. Had you been made redundant earlier (I am not a specialist, I don't know the exact timeframes) you may not have been entitled to as much (any, depending on the time frame) maternity paid as you may not have been employed at the time of being made redundant. We don't know. And you say that she had 'good reasons' to make you redundant. There may be information that you're not privy to, but maybe she did what she did in order to make you better off.

She was decent to you at the bbq. But you know that she was upset, so much so that she had to leave the room.

I am not sure she has done much wrong, given the circumstances, to be honest.

I agree that's its mean and petty to ignore a little kid, whether she's hurting or not, and I don't doubt that she is.

However, miracles do happen. I know of one person, early 40s, who was told after more than one round of IVF and investigations that she'd never have a baby. Her little one is now 2.

Another friend of a dd was told that it was a million to one against - she went on to get pg after a one night stand!!

Among my contemporaries I know of 2 couples who were trying for 10 years or more, finally gave up - and then, bingo.

Her behaviour hasn't been great, but I think it's understandable. Obviously it's still hard to be on the receiving end of a friend effectively cutting you off, but it sounds like more than she could cope with. You just don't know how dark a place her infertility journey has taken her too. Maybe she was intentionally horrible to you little boy, we don't know, but maybe she felt like she would explode into humiliating sobs if she acknowledged him. Perhaps she went to the event because she thought there would be no kids there and then felt like the carpet had been pulled from under her and she didn't know what to do. Rudeness on the surface may have been sheer panic.

It's so sad losing a friend that way, but it is just one of those things that necessarily be fixed. There's a lot more awareness of mental health issues these day and I think infertility needs to be considered similarly as it can genuinely change a person and take them to the edge of their sanity.

Maybe she felt ashamed that she didn't support you after you returned from maternity leave and instead made you redundant. Your child might be an unpleasant reminder of her behaviour (if she did it just because she was jealous).

I would assume that the friendship has run its course, and that you and your children just evoke bad memories for her.

If you think she did it on purpose to upset your son then you are not her friend.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER how fantastic! There’s always hope isn’t there?

@Sockwomble I initially thought she ignored him to upset ME but I’m glad I asked about it here because I think I needed to hear that I was bu to think that. Plus lots more comments besides. Mostly helpful in one way or another.

However, miracles do happen. I know of one person, early 40s, who was told after more than one round of IVF and investigations that she'd never have a baby. Her little one is now 2.

Another friend of a dd was told that it was a million to one against - she went on to get pg after a one night stand!!

Among my contemporaries I know of 2 couples who were trying for 10 years or more, finally gave up - and then, bingo.

That's great for them. But it's one of the most unhelpful things to say to someone struggling with infertility, because it has no relevance to their situation

When you can't have children, everyone can't wait to tell you about their brother's hairdresser's girlfriend's neighbour's secretary who had been trying for 17 years and had 13 cycles and 9 miscarriages and she had blocked tubes and he had one bollock and a low sperm count and they stopped trying and went on the adoption list and went on holiday and relaxed and got drunk and OMG at the age of 45 they have triplets

That's wonderful for them, but that doesn't change anything about the infertility person's situation. All it does is make it even harder to try and come to terms with the likelihood of never having children - and trying to get to a point of acceptance where you can be around friends' children without feeling like you're pouring salt into a gaping wound. Because everyone wants to tell you not to give up hope, you never know, miracles do happen. So you can't try to come to terms with a future where you never have a child, when you're constantly being told not to lose hope.

The couples who never got there don't make such a good story, unfortunately. For every miracle 'OMG they stopped trying and it happened' story, there are many many more couples who didn't.

Sorry but I can't get over her making you redundant

It does seem incredibly likely that she fired you because you had a child because she could be around your bump, left the room when your child tried to talk to her etc, that just seems very rude to fire someone because they are pregnant

Btw I do understand her pain, I had two stillborns before adopting children, however I also think her behaviour was out of order. I mean, making someone redundant? You don't bring your kid to work do you? Her pain must be very, very bad if she cannot even speak to children..

AT the end of the day, she has treated you in the most appalling way, that for me, as well as her behaviour towards you, is the end of the friendship.

No op, she did not ignore your ds, to upset you, she just could not handle her feelings, so much to the point where she went to the kitchen as is was so upsetting being around your son. That is not your son's fault or issue. It took me 5 years to conceive ds, and various mc, I could not treat a child like that. I probably would have plastered a fake smile and said something along the lines of "oh that's nice" in the hope that he went away.