To think we need to talk about this specific serious Brexit issue without being hidden away?

[HavingALittleBabyToolshed]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45250070
Leaked emails between NHS England and NHS Providers have shown that a no deal Brexit (Nrexit?) will have a real risk of impact on services. Stockpiling of equipment and drugs seems to be the main point of discussion - this seems to be main topic of conversation at my hospital and my colleagues are dumbfounded that this is what we are coming to.

We as a community, as nation, a society need to talk about this. The NHS is something to be proud of, is something they banged on about whilst campaigning, is something fit for advertising on a bus! How on earth can this country let be impacted in such a dangerous and aggressive way?

Look, I get why the whole of AIBU can’t be taken us by one topic but equally Brexit, particularly a no-deal Brexit is going to impact our lives in ways in which we can’t imagine. This topic needs to be discussed on the widest forum and on this site that is AIBU. There are lots of sub forums for clothes, pets, relationships and those topics don’t get rerouted elsewhere.

Commissioners propose laws but they are thoroughly debated and modified by the European Parliament. We have elected MEPs who exert pressure there. If that were true we might not be in this mess. I watched an issue dear to my heart going through the EU regulatory process. MEPs were comprehensively misled by the EU rapporteur (Labour), lied to in debate and generally uninterested and clueless. Even MEPs who claimed to be on board with fighting the legislation ended up voting against themselves, there were several elements voted on.
Complete farce but it wasn't a vote winner/loser so just rubber stamped through as most regulation is unless it causes issues at home.

The UK did not help itself by returning UKIP MEPs, whose main interest appears to be collecting their salaries for doing as little work as possible.

I can see immigrants being blamed for shortages and if I was here from another country I'd bugger off somewhere better PDQ

That’s what they are doing and they are taking their skills with them. HCAs, nurses, doctors, consultants all going home.
We are from Ireland and we are considering Australia after having trained here in the U.K. and work here all of our working lives.

But it's one thing to have to endure rationing, however well worked out it was, to fight a war against an evil regime. Quite another to have food shortages because of men like Farage and Johnson with big mouths and nothing else to recommend them.

Those big mouths will get fed.

The UK did not help itself by returning UKIP MEPs, whose main interest appears to be collecting their salaries for doing as little work as possible. Watch the live streams of the EU parliament in action, the MEPs are all the same, not interested and happy to pick up the cash out of sight and out of mind. For the most part citizens are oblivious to what these freeloaders are voting on and that's just the way they like(d) it.
At least the gravy train has come to the end of the line for some.

I voted Remain. I posted on the threads on the Referendum board two years ago but havent really posted on the issue since then.

Hazard my DH is disabled and is on a lot of meds I understand your fears

My mum has had a couple of "foreigner" comments Shes lived in the UK since 1960.

So disabled and ill people are collateral damage? Is that it.

I don't think there is any hope really that threads like these will have an impact. For leavers who are still adamant, every fact offered just annoys them as it doesn't fit their narrative, as someone said above. Positions just become more entrenched. And if we do crash out and things are bad, it will be the 'vindictive eu's' fault and somehow proof of how we were right to leave, even though it's shit for everyone .

Our only hope is for politicians to do what is right for the country, not their parties. There are a few willing, but nowhere near enough atm.

I agree. These threads are pointless.
I’m glad this thread was brought back to AIBU though because it just proves 100’s of ‘new’ people are not going to come along eager to discuss Brexit.

If you're new to Brexit, I assume you've been living under a rock for the past couple of years. It's not like being new to knitting or shaving your private parts .

You can claim the UK had a democratic say in the EU. Well I would disagree, we had 1/28 of a say in stopping EU rules and zero say in making EU rules. I am not sure you can claim your opinion is a fact.
There are nearly forty-six million electors in the UK (as of December 2016). So I have approx 1/46000000 of a say in the governance of the UK. What sort of democracy is that!
Not to mention the iniquitous, disenfranchising FPTP system

Helenadove looks like it. Don't know if people meant for this to happen, didn't think it through or didn't care. I like to think people genuinely believe the EU holds back the nhs, most people care really but maybe I'm optimistically naive

and lots of love to you and your family.

bellinisurge the op started this thread in AIBU because she thinks the brexit board is too hidden and not enough people post on it. She wanted to attract a wider audience, to get more people talking about brexit, not just the same people who are always on the brexit threads.
That hasn’t happened.
Why?
And fwiw, the brexit board looks very active to me, a lot more active than this thread.

Yes, independence is scary. As baby birds sometimes discover you might die. Still, you can go the other way and the decision is made anyway. I wonder why we have to do the snivelling and hysteria for all the world can see, it really doesn't do any of us any favours, you only have to look at the pound to see that.

I agree Helenadove .
If there's one group that will be hurt even more by this it's the ill, their carers, children and mums.
Most women voted remain, for good reason.

That hasn’t happened. Why?

I wouldnt go on this thread if i was a lurker

There was a right barney on it last night

Loats of posters on here are not showing themselves in a very good light

Plus this thread isnt a nice reasoned debate...the only thing its teaching people is how to be mean

At least the early bexit threads coukd have very educational posts ...from every point of view

(Although there were twats on it there werent many)

The brexit board threads are quiet because people use the "hide topic" feature so those threads don't show up for them in active conversations. Likewise with the trans threads there are some who want to be able to hide them all but don't want to have to hide the feminism topic.

But anyway:
a genuine desire for a wider base for immigration rather than just the FoM of the EU. She felt that it was discriminatory to other parts of the world

This, along with the left wing brexiters who voted leave because EU rules prevent the establishment of a new socialist utopia, is just naïve.

The question was never about whether the EU could be dispensed with if you could simultaneously do a brain transfer so that everyone agrees with you. That's like voting for Brexit because the EU stands in the way of the whole world uniting under a single banner of peace, love and harmony.

The real question was whether Brexit is a good idea given that large swathes of the country are quite right-wing and there is quite an unpleasant anti-immigrant pressure which those in power are unlikely to ignore. Opening immigration to all nations equally isn't going to solve anything when there are simultaneous efforts to make the whole country generally unwelcoming and unpleasant for immigrants. The socialist revolution is never going to happen.

There are plenty of rational and sane reasons for disliking the EU. The fact that it is massively flawed as an institution doesn't stop it from being a very sensible idea to be part of it and a very silly idea to leave it - but it takes a lot of understanding of a vast array of sectors of society and industry to understand that which is why it was completely insane to ever have a referendum in the first place.

Rufustheyawningreindeer
I agree.
The early brexit threads were interesting, attracting lots of different posters from both sides. But as the months have gone on people have drifted off, possibly because everything has been said before?
Brexit is now just remainers telling everyone how the world is going to end & how awful our lives are going to be.

Not true, Echo. The point is that, as time goes on, we know much more about how Brexit will work. The debate has changed from being a fairly theoretical one to one where we know much more about the realities, and it's a debate that needs to be out in the open. The trouble is that an awful lot of Leavers are still desperate to close their eyes to those realities.

There is a rather lively thread on Longhaul where people have just started reading the T&Cs on their flight tickets for next summer showing that insurance will not pay out if flights are grounded due to a Hard Brexit.

It is a shame that the UK press are under the control of non tax paying / non British offshore gits who would rather give the electorate the opium of Love Island and Bake Off than allow them to understand the issues that actually will affect them.

True Guienne but the premise remains the same
We’re right, you’re wrong. We know best.
It’s tiresome.
Plus the point has been made by this thread. It died within 200 posts.
People would rather talk about a partners genital herpes than brexit.

I am surprised that the change.org petition for letting us all have a final say on the Brexit deal is still three hundred thousand online signatures short of a million. It seems obvious to me that we need to have a say?

Walkingdead and ImAlDoot, we're a tiny country, we have to be dependent on others, it's the way the world works. We no longer have an empire to supply what we're not self-sufficient in. Come next year when you can't get essential health services, you can't fly, taxes shoot up and and people can't get jobs, how much comfort will it be to be able to say "Ah, but we're independent, thank goodness for that"?

How did the thread die when it's still going on, Echo? It went quiet for a bit because it got shunted off AIBU, but it seems pretty lively at the moment.

I wonder why we have to do the snivelling and hysteria for all the world can see, it really doesn't do any of us any favours, you only have to look at the pound to see that.

This is a perfect illustration of why threads like this are doomed: the cause of the economic consequences of Brexit is people 'talking down' Britain, not Brexit itself. There is absolutely no arguing with this standpoint and any attempts to do so lead to posters becoming frustrated and then 'nasty' comments are made and/or leavers perceive digs, who knows, maybe because on some level they know what they are arguing doesn't make sense so they become defensive and then aggressive. And so it goes on.

What is needed is strong leadership, but it clearly won't be coming from Labour . www.joe.ie/movies-tv/reporter-corbyn-question-637546