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Original poster

To think we need to talk about this specific serious Brexit issue without being hidden away?

204 replies

HavingALittleBabyToolshed · 21/08/2018 05:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45250070
Leaked emails between NHS England and NHS Providers have shown that a no deal Brexit (Nrexit?) will have a real risk of impact on services. Stockpiling of equipment and drugs seems to be the main point of discussion - this seems to be main topic of conversation at my hospital and my colleagues are dumbfounded that this is what we are coming to.

We as a community, as nation, a society need to talk about this. The NHS is something to be proud of, is something they banged on about whilst campaigning, is something fit for advertising on a bus! How on earth can this country let be impacted in such a dangerous and aggressive way?

Look, I get why the whole of AIBU can’t be taken us by one topic but equally Brexit, particularly a no-deal Brexit is going to impact our lives in ways in which we can’t imagine. This topic needs to be discussed on the widest forum and on this site that is AIBU. There are lots of sub forums for clothes, pets, relationships and those topics don’t get rerouted elsewhere.

OP posts:
Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/08/2018 19:53

You can promise to be as nice as you want but unless you can stop the nasty vindictive comments from all the other remainers

All the other remainers?

It really has only ever been SOME

It maywell be the majority on a thread...but they are still only SOME

And there have been vindicive mean comments from everyone who voted

Those that didnt vote are just keeping their heads down Grin

Ta1kinpeace · 21/08/2018 19:54

@bellinisurge
Do calm down dear.
This thread was allowed to stay on AIBU to get NEW posters with NEW thoughts to engage.
If you insist on insulting people, it and every other Brexit linked thread will get shunted.
Which is NOT A GOOD THING

Jason118 · 21/08/2018 19:54

Yes it's frustrating, very frustrating, firstly when you start a thread to seriously try to take some positives and you get no takers, and then the haters arrive to completely change the tone. I'd still like to look on the bright side if anyone has one to spare?

bellinisurge · 21/08/2018 19:56

@Ta1kinpeace ,dear. Not very nice to be called a Remoaner every time I try sweet talk.
So there's no point being anything other than blunt. This is a shit show. Leave voters are responsible.

Hazardswan · 21/08/2018 19:57

bellini side bar - I just wanted to thank you for all your contribution over threads over the weeks. You really helped to get me motivated without reading your input I would have been stuck pulling my hair out not knowing what to do.

Side bar over SORRY CONTINUE

Ta1kinpeace · 21/08/2018 19:58

So there's no point being anything other than blunt.
So you don't actually want to hear from new posters who are still getting their heads around the issue.
Great Hmm

HotTeaCup · 21/08/2018 19:59

Do many people in Britain have private health insurance? If the NHS are selling off parts to the US, will the British system become like the American one, where they only treat patients who have private health insurance?

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/08/2018 19:59

Rufustheyawningreindeer

Yes I take your point, but the point remains and is being illustrated on the thread.

bellinisurge · 21/08/2018 19:59

@Hazardswan - thank you for your side bar. Good luck.

Moussemoose · 21/08/2018 20:00

Is it vindictive to ask why Brexit is a good idea?

Is it vindictive to ask if your reasons can be supported and are not just vague statements like 'sovereignty' or 'freedom'?

Is it vindictive to to ask for a debate where points are made, evidence is provided and explanations given?

This point, evidence, explanation is the basis for most essay based GCSEs. We are politely asking posters to work at the level of the average 16 year old.

This is in AIBU - so am I being unreasonable to ask for people supporting one of the most important decisions to face this country in 75 years to come up with three evidence based reasons?

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/08/2018 20:02

Moussemoose
Is it vindictive to ask why Brexit is a good idea?

No one has said that.

prettybird · 21/08/2018 20:06

In the early days after the Referendum, there were Leave voters who did engage in what they saw as positive reasons for their Leave vote. In Howabout's case, for example, it was a genuine desire for a wider base for immigration rather than just the FoM of the EU. She felt that it was discriminatory to other parts of the world. I may have disagreed with her vote - but I respected the reasoning (which was somewhat different to some Leavers' reasoning for their vote).

She was one of the few who came up with a reason.

Ta1kinpeace · 21/08/2018 20:07

No one has said that.
What, that Brexit is good idea Grin Wink

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/08/2018 20:07

Yes I take your point, but the point remains and is being illustrated on the thread

Yes i know you do Grin

I try very hard not to insult people, i use the words some, i see snotty insults being thrown all over the shop

It has never been one sided although a stranger to these here parts 2 years on might not think that

I cant complain about other posters lumping everyone together if im doing it myself

(Fuck me but its hard though Grin, not just on brexit threads but honestly the amount of posts ive typed and deleted on mumsnet probably rival (for pure numbers of words at least) the complete works of shakespeare)

Original poster
HavingALittleBabyToolshed · 21/08/2018 20:40

Just because some posters have been dicks doesn’t mean we all are. Do you realise how many fresh eyes look at MN every month? The audience changes and evolves.
There are lots of people here who won’t engage with this debate because the second they do they will be told they are “remoaners” and to shut up. I’m sure the same is true if the other end.

We need to have a civil discussion about this, the country is being torn apart. Families aren’t talking to each other, work colleagues are arguing, friendships have broken up and the government haven’t a bloody clue what is going on.

I have children, I have another on the way. Work is very hard right now because of Brexit and the way this government have run down the NHS over the years.
I am scared. It doesn’t make me a whiner, it makes me a rational person who has had the framework she has been born into dismantled and has no idea what her future or that or her children will look like.

My friends are emigrating, my husband and I are being headhunted to move to the other side of the world and almost every other doctor I know is considering just that. Brexit will drain this country of essential skills and talent and the government doesn’t want to train the replacements.

OP posts:
Moussemoose · 21/08/2018 20:42

BoneyBackJefferson

Is it vindictive to ask why Brexit is a good idea?

No one has said that

Ok if no one has said that then will someone answer the question.

Why is Brexit a good idea? Why should we remain on course for Brexit?
What positive outcomes are we hoping for?

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/08/2018 20:58

Ta1kinpeace - You are always ignoring the truth, it has been explained to you many times on many Brexit threads. A lot of Brexiteers didn't vote to leave because of a secondary effect. The real tangible reason we voted leave was to be out of the EU.

I know you dont like it, I know you dont agree with it but reasons 1, 2 and 3 for leaving the EU will be to not be in the EU. Why do you keep pretending its something else? On a day to day basis we dont expect much to change, bar some bumps in the transition.

Ta1kinpeace · 21/08/2018 21:00

The real tangible reason we voted leave was to be out of the EU.
So do you want a no deal Brexit?
Or will you be happy with BINO?

And what do you think you will gain by being out of the EU?
What difference will the vote make to you?

Hazardswan · 21/08/2018 21:04

walking Do you want to leave the eu no matter what? Even if lives are lost? Because that's not fear mongering anymore that's a distinct possibility.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/08/2018 21:08

So do you want a no deal Brexit? I would be happy with a WTO deal, I would also give TM compromise deal a try. But BINO isn't Brexit.

And what do you think you will gain by being out of the EU? We will get our country back. The 'negotiations' have convinced me that we need to leave. We cant be dependant of the EU for medicines, we can't be dependant on them for permission to fly our aeroplanes, we can't be subservient to them for who comes into our country, we cant be dependant on them to 'give' us human rights, we shouldn't have to ask them who we do trade deals with..... and on and on.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/08/2018 21:09

Hazardswan First off that's absurd. secondly its blackmail.

We fought for our freedom, millions of people died. Why do you want to give it up again?

Ta1kinpeace · 21/08/2018 21:10

I would be happy with a WTO deal,
so you want to be he only country in the world trading on pure WTO terms
really?

Hazardswan · 21/08/2018 21:19

walking why is it absurd? Believe me and many other people wish it was. Any delay or hold up in medications at ports will put people at risk. If the price of medication goes up many things will be classed as "not being cost effective" that happens already and that problem will grow. medications will move from formulary to none formulary. Look at the insulin threads in the brexit topic that'll give you an idea about what's going on.

How is brexit creating more freedom? I'm free in the EU, I have freedom of movement, freedom to work which I can't cos I'm carer , freedom to vote for MAP.

Hazardswan · 21/08/2018 21:20

MEP* obvs!

Moussemoose · 21/08/2018 21:24

We are part of an international community we are subservient to international laws and treaties. Leaving the EU will not stop that.

When we leave the EU we will still have international obligations, we will still have to obey EU laws if we want to trade with the EU - but we will have no say in EU law and less influence internationally.

In terms of human rights we still be governed by the ECHR - a body we helped form.

We will obey WTO rules - we will not make our own rules.

Leaving the EU will not achieve your stated aims.