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AIBU?

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Original poster

I don't agree this is victim blaming

441 replies

TeeJay1970 · 19/08/2018 15:29

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45232993

I know what victim blaming is so there is no need to define it for me.

Surely this is just good advice?

The police have had to apologise for encouraging

"friends to look after each other on a night out to prevent someone becoming vulnerable or separated from the group"

Isn't that what good friends do?

OP posts:
Theshittyendofthestick · 19/08/2018 15:34

I think this is a difficult one. This is certainly the sort of advice I've given to my DC when they've been going out for an evening, but if it's done as a police campaign it changes the emphasis of who is responsible for crime and might discourage reporting from someone who has feelings of guilt for what happened to them.

Pickleypickles · 19/08/2018 15:36

I read this and thought the same thing. It isn't victim blaming it's saying there are horrible people in the world and you should live your life while trying to be as safe as possible by doing things like staying with friends on a night out. I thought it seemed like sensible advice personally.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/08/2018 15:37

Yes. But asking women to do it so that men won't rape them is a bit different.

Why don't they tell men to stay with friends when they have had a bit too much to drink, in case they get separated and are alone when they happen to bump into a woman they can rape. Encourage male friends to protect each other...

Why is the onus always on women to change how they live rather than saying equally publicly and repeatedly that men are the problem and should change their behaviour?

TerfsUp · 19/08/2018 15:37

It seems like a reminder to use common sense and to keep an eye out for your friends.

NewYearNewMe18 · 19/08/2018 15:37

I think, to a degree, you are correct. People have to be accountable for their own behaviour, and when you are beyond incapable intoxicated that are many 'what ifs' - what if the person fell under a car? fell asleep and died of hypothermia? vomited and choked? and so forth, it isn't just about an assault, and yes we should look out for each other - and its actually an offence to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk (licencing Act 2003)

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 15:38

Yabu

It is victim blaming.

Men, leave drunk girls the fuck alone, having sex with them is rape and makes you a sex offender mot a stud.

Fixed it

Finfintytint · 19/08/2018 15:39

If we all know there are horrible people in the world then why not have your campaign targeting them and not focus on how a victim and their friends have behaved?

WrongKindOfFace · 19/08/2018 15:39

If the focus hadn’t been on sexual assault I think it would have been different. After all people do wander off and get hypothermia, run over, drown etc. Look after your mates is generally good advice.

JayDot500 · 19/08/2018 15:42

Surely we should support the police by a being as responsible as best we can. No, I don't think ths is victim blaming, I do think most of us do this already. If ever someone I'm with got separated, the group would want to know where they were.

Id be interested to know why people wouldn't routinely do this on a group nights out? Hmm

SilverDoe · 19/08/2018 15:43

I think the first comment sums it up.

Sensible and logical advice in the real world - becomes an issue when police campaigns are targeting victims rather than perpetrators.

I understand though, if you are the one seeing the crimes from a third person perspective and dealing with the victims, why you would want to remind people that horrible things happen. Because you’d want to protect people from that I suppose.

JayDot500 · 19/08/2018 15:43

Grr typos, sorry

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 15:44

Of course rape is only ever the fault of the rapist!

But bar staff/door staff have a responsibility not to boot out a lone female or serve too much alcohol, and friends if they’re any kind of friends will stick together.

So it was clumsy and open to misinterpretation but I see their point.

DearMrDilkington · 19/08/2018 15:44

Men, leave drunk girls the fuck alone, having sex with them is rape and makes you a sex offender mot a stud.

This is what needs to be taught in schools and by parents. You cannot consent when you are intoxicated, it's rape.

Skippingabeat · 19/08/2018 15:45

I always read these threads on MN and I really don’t understand how giving advice about how not to make yourself or your friends or kids vulnerable can be victim blaming.

I always tell my daughter and her friends to stay together when they’re out. I also tell her to lock the door when she’s alone at home and other safety measures. Does that mean it’s her fault if anything happens? Of course not!!

As for it coming from the police, how is it different from them telling you that there has been burglaries in the neighborhood so make sure your doors are locked and install an alarm system? Or is that something that the police shouldn’t advise?
I’m just so confused by these points of view.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 15:46

When I used to go on nights out we always had a deal, we went out as a group and came home as a group. If one person didn’t get in somewhere we all went home.

glintandglide · 19/08/2018 15:47

Men: make sure your friends don’t rape!

Better advice?

Racecardriver · 19/08/2018 15:48

This isn't victim blaming. It is prudent advice.

Finfintytint · 19/08/2018 15:50

Skipping, I’m not sure we should equate property crime with sex assaults. Women can hardly lock up their fannies.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 15:50

glint perfect.

stevie69 · 19/08/2018 15:50

This isn't victim blaming. It is prudent advice

I have to agree.

araiwa · 19/08/2018 15:50

Its sad that such advice needs to be given. Its common sense to take care of your mates.

Pickleypickles · 19/08/2018 15:51

How is a campaign say "are YOU a rapist? If yes then stop raping!" Going to help??? Rape is against the law, and I don't know a single person who would defend a rapist. People know it's wrong so a campaign aimed at that won't help.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/08/2018 15:51

Of course it's victim.blaming.

Blame the bar staff, the friends everyone but the dicks heads responsible.

If there's time for police to investigate stickers stating biological facts there's time to keep an eye on suspect blokes picking off drunk girls .

glintandglide · 19/08/2018 15:52

In a way though, it’s not good advice. There is always one in the group who has to look after the drunk and incapable one and it becomes a source of burden and upset. My sister spent most her teenage years delivering friends home. Why should she be guardian angel against rapists? Women should be able to get drunk without being raped.

SilverDoe · 19/08/2018 15:52

Skipping I think the difference, although this is just my understanding, is the context of the crime and the specific issues women face around rape.

As in none of the other crimes really have an issue in society of people blaming the victim of the crime or blurring the lines of whether what happened was criminal or not, to the same extent that this happens with rape.

It is insidious and although I understand and agree that the advice is logical, I also see the other side of the argument and agree with that too. It’s difficult for the police to navigate I suppose, because apart from to address these “blurred line” issues that happen in court cases around intoxication and rape, what else is the point in addressing campaigns at perpetrators? They know what they are doing is illegal and heinous l, surely?