I don't agree this is victim blaming

[TeeJay1970]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45232993

I know what victim blaming is so there is no need to define it for me.

Surely this is just good advice?

The police have had to apologise for encouraging

"friends to look after each other on a night out to prevent someone becoming vulnerable or separated from the group"

Isn't that what good friends do?

All these posters saying this is just good advice on how to stay safe and not victim blaming: why is it targeted at women only and not men if so? Where’s the advice for men?

Because it's easier to blame women for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and sort of shrug like it was bound to happen at some point or another 🤷‍♀️ rather than stop rapists raping.

If you follow that logic through, and I do choose to go out showing off my £5000, do I deserve to get mugged for not following the precautions? Was I asking for it, through the very nature of not specifically protecting against it?

No but that's not really analogous to the tweet in question.

I don’t think I’ll be sending my daughter walking on her own in darkness drunk just because ‘if you get raped it won’t be your fault it’ll be his’
Which is true. But I’d rather the rape part just didn’t fucking happen tbh, point made or not

Giles exactly. I wasn't joking.

I would also like to know how the people who merely think it's good advice would solve the issue.

First up women dare go out drinking- even on soft drinks they can get spiked.

Even sober they can get separated from friends in the search queues or by being just a minute or two early or late at meeting points.

Women also need to pee. Bar queues can be long. Do we wet ourselves waiting at the bar with friends .

How do we get home?
Even early and sober friends don't always live together . So once someone walks the friend home what then?.How do they then get home? Taxis and ubers quiet buses and tube carriages aren't safe . Everyone Always gets grief for using them. And walking is out.

Wtf do we do?

So what's your point, Giles? That because we can't ensure 100% safety, we shouldn't advise taking any measures at all?

To compare, I know that if I walked down the street waving £5000 around, I should be able to walk without being mugged. But the reality is I probably would be mugged. And it would be the mugger's fault. Except if I'd not been flashing the cash, they might not have mugged me.

Someone carrying 5 grand can hide it. A woman can't hide the fact she is a woman, she can't hide her vagina. A woman isn't 'flashing' anything when she is out and about, the rapist knows the vagina is there, because she is a woman. If we are comparing women's vaginas to money that is.

If we are comparing women's vaginas to money that is.

Which obviously PP was not. The analogy was more like waving cash vs. walking around alone when you're really drunk.

So what's your point, Giles? That because we can't ensure 100% safety, we shouldn't advise taking any measures at all?

My point is there are no measures to take. Not really. Not ones that dont make it stupidly hard work going out in the first place.

And there is not a single thing a woman can do to go out that won't somehow make it her fault for being there in the first place.

Men are the problem.that need to be solved.

@DiegoMadonna
It wasn't meant to be - the conversation had moved on to the general concept of victim blaming, and my point was about seemingly sensible advice not actually being all that sensible. Particularly when the resulting argument ends up being used against women, when you extrapolate the "sensible advice".

Ie - "Probably best not to walk drunk down a dark alley." Sensible. "But why were you walking drunk down a dark alley when you know it's not safe?" Victim blaming.

Theonlyliving...

It wasn't targeted at women.

The advice only mentioned "friends'.

Did you read it?

glintandglide
Men: make sure your friends don’t rape!

This is still removing responsibility from rapists.

And you didn't actually answer the question.

How do we get home? Whether or not we walk our friends home even if it's a 6 friemd drop off, there comes a point where that last friend is on their own. We just delayed it. And there is not a so how "approved " way if her getting home

Not a single

No, it's not victim blaming to advise people to take precautions preempting a potential crime. As for how about we teach men not to rape? Well, we already do that don't we? How many boys are brought up being told rape is ok? None. Same way no one is being brought up being told murder or theft is ok. We have laws saying these things are wrong but if that were all it took to stop criminals committing crimes we'd have empty prisons, criminals don't care about the law that's why they're criminals.

No but by staggering around alone, she is conveying that she is more likely to be vulnerable, easier to overpower, unable to defend herself or have others defend her, less able to identify an attaker or remember the details of what happened and therefore less credible in terms of giving evidence. The choice between her and a woman who is part of a group and sober is clear.

Still doesn't make it her fault but i'd rather stay safe in the first place.

I’d like a curfew for men so women can walk freely in whatever state they wish last say 11pm. Female police, paramedics, doctors. Would do wonders for equal pay too

Yes it was a joke boney. Making men responsible for their friends the way women are supposed to be for theirs

Oh dear, false choices - it's not either/or, it's BOTH/AND!!

1. address the issue of rape culture? Err, YES of course
2. Advise people not to make themselves vulnerable by being drunk, alone, late at night? Err, YES.

See, you can do both!
And in most other areas of life we use the same both/and approach.

Paedophiles? Need locking up.
Children? Taught about stranger danger.

giles makes an excellent point.

I was raped. By a guy at uni. I had drunk 2 pints, the second one had been spiked by the bar man, I went to the loo, came out and sat on the floor, rapist prick "helped me" outside. He was a 'good' guy, so no one who saw questioned it. The bouncer did. Rapist prick told him he was my boyfriend, I heard, but couldn't respond. I woke up with him raping me on his sofa.his housemate was watching TV next to us.

My friends were frantically looking for me.

This was almost 20 years ago.

What should I or they have done differently?

He wasn't charged by the way. Not was the bar man. It took a lot of lobbying to even get him sacked, cctcv showed him spiking my drink.

There is literally nothing a woman can do to prevent rape if that is what men are fixed on. There is a network of excuses built on to our society.

@MyDirtyLittleSecret Unfortunately many children are brought up to believe that antisocial behaviour of all kinds is ok. Even extreme behaviours such as rape and assault.
Children don't understand about laws - they understand what is modelled to them. And if the behaviour they witness from their family is their mothers, sisters, aunties etc being abused, they can absolutely come to believe that this is acceptable. Sad, but true.

I quite like the idea of a curfew for men tbh.

Plenty of men are brought up disrespecting females mydirtylittlesecret. Its endemic

The point is, this campaign protects one woman, so he can move on to the next one. How shit is that?