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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I don't agree this is victim blaming

441 replies

TeeJay1970 · 19/08/2018 15:29

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45232993

I know what victim blaming is so there is no need to define it for me.

Surely this is just good advice?

The police have had to apologise for encouraging

"friends to look after each other on a night out to prevent someone becoming vulnerable or separated from the group"

Isn't that what good friends do?

OP posts:
glintandglide · 19/08/2018 15:53

“Today 15:51 Pickleypickles

How is a campaign say "are YOU a rapist? If yes then stop raping!" Going to help??? Rape is against the law, and I don't know a single person who would defend a rapist. People know it's wrong so a campaign aimed at that won't help.”

This isn’t true at all! Many men don’t realise they’re raping their drunken one night stand. There is SO much education that needs to be targetted at young men and boys

upsideup · 19/08/2018 15:54

I dont think its any different to encouraging people to be safe when crossing roads or to not give out personal details to strangers etc.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 15:55

Absolutely agree that a campaign teaching boys/men about consent and what constitutes rape is needed too!

Original poster
TeeJay1970 · 19/08/2018 15:55

I completely agree with those saying we should teach men to not rape, but sadly crime will always exist, rapes will always exist.

Telling criminals to please stop being criminals is unlikely to work.

So I'm sorry Putyourdamnshoeson, sadly, you haven't fixed it.

OP posts:
Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 15:56

What glint said. Rapists are not in macs down alleys. They're men, everywhere who think it's funny to shag drunk girls. If you don't know this, you're really not paying attention.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/08/2018 15:56

And of course it's advertising exactky what things are going to he said and asked of the victims. No one's going to report after seeing that are they. Cos they went out and got drunk.

Men are fucking laughing aren't they. Off the hook before they even done it.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 15:56

The point is, most rapists don't think that they are rapists.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 15:57

Because its all just for the bantz. Her own fault anyway, drunk slapper.

Nope.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 15:58

Nobody’s saying they’re off the hook ffs, and nobody is saying that they should be!

The fact is that women do get separated from friends who don’t try and find them, bar staff do serve women who are far too drunk to handle it, and door staff do kick out lone females who are too drunk to stay inside.

So suggesting that these people don’t do those things could help protect women!

Sure, it’s all very well nailing the bastard afterwards but it’s a bit fucking late by then!

HushabyeMountainGoat · 19/08/2018 16:00

Sound advice that everyone can use but I see that it's problematic when attached to sexual assault.

You're vulnerable to injury and accidents if you're blind drunk and alone. Attack is just one part of this. Men could also put themselves at risk by getting caught up in a fight or falling asleep and beng mugged.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 16:01

Actually the advice is sound whether you’re male or female and I think if they’d put it that way it wouldn’t have caused the argument it has.

upsideup · 19/08/2018 16:03

a campaign teaching boys/men about consent and what constitutes rape is needed too!

There are already many, the tea drinking one was massive and I think showed in most schools.

ReggaetonLente · 19/08/2018 16:04

The point is, most rapists don't think that they are rapists.

^^ this

glintandglide · 19/08/2018 16:05

Pretty sure the tea drinking one is it really, not many. And the message still hasn’t got through so best keep going. It’ll probably take 10+ years. Get this generation of rapey young men out of the way and hope they don’t influence the next

Itsnotmesothere · 19/08/2018 16:05

If you want to see victim blaming, read some of the Daily Mail readers comments on the man who killed his family in America. Absolutely disgraceful comments which make me wonder just how many people think like that. Maybe he just snapped and couldn't cope with the idea of another baby being brought into a debt ridden home
Sure. OK. Women just get pregnant by themselves. She pushed him to this!

Pickleypickles · 19/08/2018 16:06

Sorry my point wasn't made very well. There have been some very campaigns about what constitutes giving consent and they are very needed. There is a difference between someone who sets out to commit rape and some who "didn't understand" they didn't have consent which is who those campaigns are aimed at.

I think both types of rape are unforgivable just your campaign may help reduce one but not the other

I still don't think giving women sensible advice on staying safe is victim blaming.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 16:08

Itsnotmesothere whenever a man kills a woman there’s always some kind of mitigation by the press. It’s always somehow either the woman’s fault, or she “pushed him” or some other disgusting insinuation.

‘‘Twas ever thus.

Doesn’t make it right though. It’s appalling.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/08/2018 16:08

So suggesting that these people don’t do those things could help protect women!

Except when women get taxis instead of walking home AS SUGGESTED they are raped.

When they get scared and walk because taxis and buses aren't safe well "why were they walking"

If it's not the fa t they are drinking it's the time or the clothes or the fact that someone dared went to the cash point alone.

Piss off.

BigBlueBubble · 19/08/2018 16:09

Should they also stop telling people to lock their doors because criminals shouldn’t be committing burglaries? Advising people on ways to prevent crime isn’t “victim blaming”.

Papergirl1968 · 19/08/2018 16:10

I used to work for the police in a PR role and it was standard advice to tell friends to stick together and look out for each other.
Almost every adult victim victim of sexual assault (as opposed to child sex abuse cases obviously) was very drunk, to the point of not knowing what they were doing and being unable to give consent. And they were also very vulnerable in terms of being hit by cars, falling into rivers or canals, etc.
I don’t think the police and council needed to apologise, but if they felt they really needed to, it should have been a “sorry if our campaign inadvertently caused any distress, but we stand by the message.”
It’s actually got far more publicity by being controversial so has hopefully done some good.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 16:10

Gileswithachainsaw piss off? Talk about unecessary!

How about you calm the fuck down and stop defending people who ditch their mates on a night out??? Maybe nobody would walk home alone if their friends weren’t dicks.

But aye, let’s all just think of ourselves and sort out the damage after it’s been done. That’s absolutely the most sensible course of action isn’t it?

Take your own advice and wind your neck in while you’re at it.

ethelfleda · 19/08/2018 16:11

What glint said. Rapists are not in macs down alleys. They're men, everywhere who think it's funny to shag drunk girls. If you don't know this, you're really not paying attention

I agree with this. And that most rapists don’t think they are rapists. And men need to be taught what constitutes as consent.

It’s a shame - they really should have made this campaign much more generic and inclusive of both sexes. For example - look after friends on a night out if you are all drinking - male groups, female groups, mixed groups etc in the case of assault, sexual assault, mugging, wandering off and drowning etc etc but also - try to not let your friends do anything stupid either!! If your mate is coming on to a drunk woman for instance, try to Talk some sense in to him! Don’t let your mates drive if they’re pissed etc etc

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 16:11

The thing is. A woman should be able to lie naked in the street, paralytic and STILL not be raped.

I'm not suggesting that this is a fabolulous idea, or something we should all do, the point is, even if someone did this, they should not expect to be raped.

The fact that this is something to debate is a symptom of a misogynistic society that infantilises men..

Again, the VAST majority of rapists are not Men hiding in bushes, they are opportunists who give zero shits and see women as objects to be penetrated.

sprinklesandsauce · 19/08/2018 16:11

I agree with you, it's just common sense and what I will be telling my DD when she is old enough to go out with her friends. it is not just about rape, it is about accidents and taking care of yourself.

It is not victim blaming to tell your DD to be careful and to not drink so much she is not aware of her surroundings. I would be telling a son exactly the same thing.

glintandglide · 19/08/2018 16:12

Yeah but papergirl the police used to be even more crap at dealing with rape than they are now, so not exactly a gold standard

Would people please stop comparing women being raped to stuff being taken in bugleries please

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