Page 6 | I don't agree this is victim blaming

TeeJay1970 · 2018-08-19T14:29:56+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45232993]] I know what victim blaming is so there is no need to define it for me. Surely this is just good advice? The police have had to apologise for encouraging "friends to look after each other on a night out to prevent someone becoming vulnerable or separated from the group" Isn't that what good friends do?

glintandglide · 19/08/2018 17:25

Oh for fucks sake. Stop comparing a woman to a wide screen tv. Burglary is nothing like rape

MyDirtyLittleSecret · 19/08/2018 17:26

No sar302 some children may grow up in homes where anti-social behaviour is encouraged and accepted within the home but very few of those children grow up in a social vacuum ie with absolutely no other wider influences to counteract whatever poor conduct they learn in the home. They go to school, watch tv, see movies, the news! visit friends' homes where different behaviour are modelled and expected so most, by the time they grow up, are fully aware that whatever antisocial or criminal behaviour might be condoned in their family circle it is condemned by society as a whole.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 17:26

iamagrey no one debates what burglary is though, do they?

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2018 17:26

“Telling the rapists not to rape hasn’t actually worked, unsurprisingly.”

Well it might if we actually did it, and men stepped up to police their own behavior instead of expecting women to do it for them.

GunpowderGelatine · 19/08/2018 17:27

I agree OP. I think it's a good message actually, to say to look out for each other!

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 17:27

Yes. What bertrand said

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/08/2018 17:28

I never suggested it was... But when there are predators on the loose, you need to accept that keeping yourself safe is necessary in a way that it wouldn’t be if we actually lived in Utopia.

ivykaty44 · 19/08/2018 17:28

Victim blaming has become so entrenched within the social aspect that unfortunately you see this as normal behaviour to blame, criticism or ask other to behave in such a way - but not actually concentrate efforts in blaming the perpetrators of crime.

Once we start really asserting that the blame lies with the perpetrators of the crime, burglary, rape, theft, mugging, gah,

Then we can address the crimes and try to reduce there incidents

Blaming other will never really help

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 17:29

Predators on the loose? Jesus wept.

OftenHangry · 19/08/2018 17:30

@Putyourdamnshoeson is it? I don't think so. No matter who you are you should touch other people's privates without them allowing it.

I there is a campaign advising parents on how to teach their children about consent. Quite a big one. Which is really good. www.teachconsent.org/parents/

agnurse · 19/08/2018 17:31

I think there's victim blaming and there's victim blaming.

Let's say a man goes to Central Park in New York at midnight wearing a $5000 suit and carrying his life savings in his pocket. He has no weapon. He gets mugged. Is it victim blaming to say that was not a smart idea? Home care nurses are advised not to wear scrubs (you could be attacked by someone looking for drugs) or fancy jewelry, to lock their purses in the trunk of their car, and not to drive a fancy car. Is that victim blaming?

Not getting drunk, staying in well-lit areas, not going home with someone you don't know, not accepting a drink from a stranger, and keeping your drink in front of you are common sense things.

Let's be honest. No one NEEDS to get roaring drunk. Sexual assault aside, getting that drunk makes you a prime target for thieves, not to mention the damage it does to your body. Now, I enjoy the occasional drink and I don't have an issue with that. But if you've had so many that you can hardly stand up, really, there's no need for that.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 19/08/2018 17:32

Look at Ched Evans. There was no physical way that he could have had 'reasonable belief in consent' of the woman he 'had sex with' in the time scale and circumstances that he himself described.

And yet...........not a rapist.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 17:32

hangry that's irrelevant to this thread and to reality. Female sex offenders are vanishingly rare and in the cases there have been, they have all had predatory men coercing their behaviour

Please don't derail.

sar302 · 19/08/2018 17:35

@MyDirtyLittleSecret As someone who has worked with vulnerable children for the last 10 years, I have seen myself that the home environment is the most important and influential - particularly (unfortunately) it seems, when it is negative.
Obviously there are outside influences, and the effects of nature as well as nurture, because not all young people who have witnessed abuse grow up to be abusers. But if you grow up witnessing that as "normal" behaviour, it can have a huge impact on your baseline of what is normal. And there are many many children who grow up like this.

What I won't do is excuse their behaviour as adults, because at some point as an adult everyone makes choices about their behaviour. But when your basis for appropriate behaviour is so skewed, you are not making those choices from quite the same place as others. It's very difficult.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 17:35

How about a police campaign targeting potential rapists? How about we give our sons advice about consent before they go out? How about we teach our sons to speak out when their male friends make rape jokes, use degrading and misogynist language about women? How about we tell out sons to keep an eye out for behaviour in their friends that leads them to believe they might rape someone? How about men take some responsibility for their behaviour and the behaviour of other men for a change......

This was what I meant, preventative action rather than afterwards.

It is massively important to educate boys from a young age what is and isn’t acceptable, what is and isn’t consent, and what is and isn’t rape.

glintandglide · 19/08/2018 17:36

“Let's be honest. No one NEEDS to get roaring drunk. Sexual assault aside, getting that drunk makes you a prime target for thieves, not to mention the damage it does to your body. Now, I enjoy the occasional drink and I don't have an issue with that. But if you've had so many that you can hardly stand up, really, there's no need for that.”

I CANNOT stand this attitude. Who cares whether you think there is a need or not? Plenty of people find it enjoyable to go out and get drunk. Why should they be prevented from doing that in case the get raped?

And the advice was NOT don’t accept drinks from strangers etc it was that women should look after their friends to help prevent them getting raped. That is totally different from other crime Safety advice.

DistanceCall · 19/08/2018 17:36

How about a police campaign targeting potential rapists? How about we give our sons advice about consent before they go out? How about we teach our sons to speak out when their male friends make rape jokes, use degrading and misogynist language about women? How about we tell out sons to keep an eye out for behaviour in their friends that leads them to believe they might rape someone? How about men take some responsibility for their behaviour and the behaviour of other men for a change......

Yes, of course. AND you also warn people to be careful.

YeTalkShiteHen · 19/08/2018 17:37

It happens every fucking day hen. We ARE fire fighting

I know that! Neither of the men who raped me were even charged let alone convicted. And it made not one jot of difference to the damage they did to me. It still happened.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 19/08/2018 17:38

Yes, of course. AND you also warn people to be careful.

See people are always like 'yes of course, blah blah blah, we already do all that' as if it's already a given. It's really really not.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/08/2018 17:41

Will a man who has the proclivity to rape actually take a blind bit of notice of a campaign telling them it’s wrong? They know it’s wrong, they just don’t care
The education of boys stuff I completely agree with, but some people do this as a matter of course and others don’t.
Certainly not something that can either be relied upon or enforced, really.

MyDirtyLittleSecret · 19/08/2018 17:44

Bertrand I don't know where you're actually living that you are unaware of the ongoing, extensive campaigns at all levels of education and in wider social media dealing with issues of consent, unwanted touching, no means no, take back the night, don't rape. We ARE saying to boys and men don't rape and most are getting that message but to a determined wannabe rapist it's the same as saying don't steal to a wannabe thief or don't drink and drive to a wannabe drunk driver. You can't legislate for people determined to break the law regardless of how many times or how loud we say 'don't'.
Advising people to protect themselves as far as possible from potential crime is just good advice. it doesn't take the onus off the criminal just makes it harder for the criminal to commit crime.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 17:44

The proclivity to rape? You don't understand the situation.

youarenotkiddingme · 19/08/2018 17:45

It's not victim blaming.

Truth is that a woman on their own late at night is more vulnerable. That's not saying if you go out alone it's your fault you're raped.

It's about limiting the risks.

The same as being told don't get in a car with someone you know or suspect has been drinking and take their keys if you can. If an accident happens it's the drunk drivers fault. But you have a responsibility as a member of society to be part of keeping everyone, including yourself safe.

I'm always dubious about the Intoxicated one too. If 2 adults are extremely drunk and have sex haw can one be held on account of rape? (Or have I misunderstood?)

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/08/2018 17:47

What “situation” haven’t I understood, Putyourdamnshoeson?

Putyourdamnshoeson · 19/08/2018 17:48

How endemic rape is. Who perpetrates it.