Scalded for drinking alcohol by a stranger

[Boilin]

Went to Wetherspoons (I'm still there) with DP. I'm 28 weeks pregnant at the moment and had half a pint of cider with my meal. The woman who served it to me had no issue with it whatsoever, but the man stood next to me (not sure if he was slightly drunk) felt it appropriate to tell my DP that 'that won't be good for her or the baby' (hello I'm stood right here ). DP told him, 'it's fine' and told me to ignore him and the bloke then continued to discuss under his breath with his partner/friend my choice to have a drink.

AIBU to think he had no right? To think that it's fine that I had half a pint once in a blue moon? To feel pissed off with the constant judgement of my ever move since I've been pregnant?

Ugh. I've just had enough of today! Sorry for moaning...

@BlueBug45 I don't drink alcohol but couldn't she have chosen apple juice ? nevertheless fact say that alcohol is toxic and growing babies/fetuses are very vulnerable . . I would think of this rather than oooh I like the taste of cider let's have a cider . . But denial does help with the guilt

I know people who smoke and drunk during their pregnancies and had miscarriages and them expect all the sympathy in the world ...and get it ...society is nuts

@lola212121 read the entire thread plus the links posted by PPs before making uneducated comments.

Oh and apple juice can be toxic - I will leave you to work out why.

Hartley

Noone did I think? Have you read the whole thread?

savannah

Keep posting and keep on mumsnet. I would have loved it with my first ds back in1989! Oldie as I am

Apple juice is vile! Cider is lovely.

Amy hooo group hugs too

lola

Are you drunk now? Your last post had no
Scientific bearing or evidence but hey who cares

@HartleyHaresHo i think everyone is entitled to their opinion, I was just expressing mine, I've done it in the wrong way, clearly, and I have apologised for that, but I stick with my opinion, just like id expect anyone else to stick by their own opinion and argue for what they think is right without people swaying their opinions

@apriljune12 I will do haha, just never know which thread to comment on ha

"Patronise"
treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority.

synonyms: treat condescendingly, condescend to, look down on, talk down to, put down, treat like a child, treat with disdain

@SavanahXx , right so you don't work, you don't socialise with people your own age because they're immature.

You seem to say your living in a rough area, yet you won't work to improve that situation? How's that going to work out when you're aww baby is going to nursery and school, you probably won't like the other children or their mums. You seem to be extremely judgemental about everyone!

You're a teenage mother who just thinks they know best based on internet. You need to get a proper life and live in the real world by talking and socialising.

I also sincerely hope you're not claiming any benefits as it's a lifestyle choice you've made not a necessity.

You are an extremely unenlightened person, no matter what you think about how your teenage years were.

@SavanahXx see I'm up early, you know to do a days work! Although if you could let me know what you know sells well for a lot more....I'll be a millionaire next year!

@Savanah there are (probably) hundreds of thousands of people on MN. I can assure you, you are not the only 'young mum' and definitely not the youngest I've come across on here. Many of the posters who you are interacting with are still in their 20s, many are not, and some may well be teens.

Mmmm yes I wondered how long it would take for posters to hone in on the fact that savannah clearly doesn’t have a job. Don’t think that’s any of our business tbh.

Mathanxiety, if we are in denial I’d say you are projecting massively. I don’t think anyone has said that the NHS guidelines on drinking are stupid and we understand why the advice is zero units. But you seem determined to prove that everyone on this thread who has chosen to drink very small amounts in pregnancy must actually have been necking far more units beacause we just can’t count them. Is it that unbelievable that some women can in fact enjoy half a cider or 125 ml of wine and not be doing so every day? Also many of us have said we had different approaches in different pregnancies. Again some people aren’t so black and white. The latest review of studies of hot baths and saunas reported on earlier this year (of which there were 12) found that at no point did any woman using one in pregnancy raise her core temp above 39degrees, in any of the studies. The advice is based purely on the therory that if you sat in one for hours on end you might get too hot. The advice on alcohol consumption is based purely on theory that there is no safe lower limit. Public health bodies don’t want to confuse people, I get it, so it’s easier to say ‘we advise against x, y, and z’. I don’t think I’m unreasonable to suggest that health advice to men would not be based on theory, but we will never know beacause men will never have babies.

I don’t think I’m unreasonable to suggest that health advice to men would not be based on theory, but we will never know beacause men will never have babies.

Too true. But that’s because you know, men can handle scientific fact. Women need it SHOUTED AT THEM, repeatedly in layman’s terms. If you don’t dumb it down and yell it in our faces, we just don’t get it.

I was just reading about a campaign in quebec which was halted. It said “one drink could hurt your foetus”. Cue loads of women freaking out and asking for abortions for their completely healthy babies because they’d had a glass of wine! They pulled the campaign.

As I’ve said a few times on here, it’s about balance, and I think the way some of these messages are disseminated is wrong imo, (and possibly more about arse covering than science). Placing the blame on the mother for all possible future problems with dc is lazy and suits the patriarchy down to the ground. The Australian article saying a child becoming aggressive between the ages two and fifteen years old is down to moderate drinking in pregnancy? I mean, on the face of it, that seems seriously shaky ‘evidence’ does it not? If there’s more to it, and I’m sure there is, they really need to share the full picture. I hate the way things are oversimplified for pregnant mothers. As I’ve said, this is just the beginning. After the birth it’s ‘breast is best, breast is best, breast is best, breast is best’.

And I say this as a very wary pregnant person, (when pregnant), a very wary alcohol drinker, (due to family history with alcohol), and a doggedly determined breastfeeder!

@SaoirseTheSeahorse

I agree with you. A lot of cultural attitudes in regards to pregnancy are extremely patriarch. Which makes sense, seeing as pregnancy is exclusively associated with womanhood. (like periods. Or breast feeding...)

But there's also the issue of ethics (a baby being unable to consent and needing to abstain from practices that may harm the baby or the mother) and research guide lines. Which is why it's incredibly difficult to actually determine a safe amount/find out what amount at what stage happens to be damaging...

Drinking alcohol around the time of conception and the first trimester is the riskiest (I was told). But I'm fairly certain that quite a few mothers of healthy babies drank around that time (probably because they weren't ttc/didn't know they were pregnant).

It seems like a reasonably higher amount of alcohol consumption than currently assumed could still be reasonably safe. But who would be willing to be participate in that kind of research? Or knowingly take that risk?

What I find interesting is how infrequently sperm quality (and the man's lifestyle choices, health, habits etc...) is talked about.

Alcohol consumption (at least a high amount...) is associated with a significant decrease in sperm quality and quantity...

When I was 19, I worked 50 hours a week. I went out a lot, drank a lot and had a great time.

Could I have been a mother then? God no. I was far too selfish and self-absorbed.

I will, actually, take my hat off to a teenager who is this invested and committed to her unborn child. She wants the best for her, she's looking forward to being a mum and I actually think that she'll be a good one. She's probably being a tad OTT here, but that's because she's anxious. She's young.
She's been a through a lot and is perhaps overcompensating, who knows.

I genuinely thought that I knew it all at 19, turned out that I knew fuck all and few many years later, I still accept that I know fuck all and that we forever keep learning from others.

Keep an open mind @SavanahXx.

mey

Thanks. And as I was trying to say up thread, is it any wonder savanah feels so anxious? She has all these warnings shouted at her while she’s already vulnerable, having suffered miscarriages and anxiety already.

But I also completely agree that the only 100% safe level of alcohol consumption in pregnancy, (or not in pregnancy - even men too ), is zero. There is no ‘safe level’ for anyone. And yes, the consent issue is what makes this most contentious when you are carrying a baby.

But, as has been said numerous times on here, it’s about assessing risk and also I think about alcohol being, historically, a moral issue as well as a health concern. Unlike taking painkillers for example. It makes the issue very fraught with emotion on both sides.

I think a wider, less emotional, discussion is needed and more information, but as you say, who on earth could they carry out that research on?

We don’t need any more research we just need to apply common sense to the facts.

Only a blithering idiot would think half a glass of cider could harm a foetus.

Only a blithering idiot woukd drink a bottle of wine a day during pregnancy and not know this is dangerous.

Women are perfectly capable of living their lives and being pregnant doesn’t change that.

The hysteria from some posters is laughable.

And annalogy yes I sgree I hope she does too.

The hysteria from some posters is laughable.

No it isn’t. It’s understandable, given the ‘facts’ often discussed in the media, which are then backed up by most MWs and some doctors. Blaming the individual woman for simply believing what she is told by HCPs here, is misplaced imo and doesn’t help women at all.

I was told by my midwife that the first 8 weeks is actually less risky because the placenta hasn't formed yet and there's nothing that goes directly to the embryo.

Well it’s up to you what you do OP and something probably won’t happen with The occasional half pint and it really isn’t anybody else’s business but as someone who is raising a DS with FASD and seeing how it affects him each and every day. I wish that someone would have said something to my son’s birth mum and maybe she would have thought twice. I’m sorry that you have this experience i’m sure that you’re sensible and that it is only once in a while but i’m glad that people are saying something. Good luck with the pregnancy :)

@SaoirseTheSeahorse

Yes, the consent issue is definitely what makes this difficult. And the right to bodily integrity (of the pregnant woman).

I think a wider, less emotional, discussion is needed and more information, but as you say, who on earth could they carry out that research on?

Exactly. This kind of research would be extremely unethical.

I'm based in Germany and I didn't get a lot of advice about food or alcohol, tbh. I suppose I was expected to just know it / look it up. (Which I obviously did.)

But I am planning on having some tiramisu (waiting in our fridge...) this evening. Raw eggs and less than a spoon of Marsala per portion... Raw eggs are apparently fine during pregnancy (once again...) and such a small amount of alcohol is imo extremely unlikely to be harmful. (Although you are obviously right, nothing is 100% safe...)

Raw eggs are apparently fine during pregnancy (once again...)

Exactly. The advice on alcohol changed for me between my two dcs and there’s only 3 years between them! My friend whose son is the same age as my eldest has two older dcs. When she was feeding them (formula) she way advised that making up bottles in advance was fine, as long as they were in the back of the fridge.

My (male) doctor friend jokes that they make this stuff up to scare women... He’s joking obviously, but I don’t think he’s far wrong in terms of how dogmatic some HCPs are about certain guidelines. It’s always the patient-facing HCPs as well. Hospital doctors seem to use their common sense a lot more, from what I understand. It’s shifting the blame and responsibility, more and more, to the patient. “It’s up to you of course, but you know if you don’t then...”. I found this when discussing birth options with dc2. They wanted me to have a section (which I was fine with), but they wouldn’t just come out and say so. But I’m digressing massive here, sorry. Interesting chat though.

Okaaaay, so being “such a young person” allows you to be annoying on a forum for adults? Is that the general consensus?

Mmmm yes I wondered how long it would take for posters to hone in on the fact that savannah clearly doesn’t have a job. Don’t think that’s any of our business tbh.

Maybe not but relevant to the fact she can over invest in a thread and no I don't want to be paying benefits to work shy people, it irks me and I'll tell them that.