Delicate situation

[PeapodBurgundy]

Not sure how to play this one at all, so I thought I'd ask here for want of somewhere else.

We've recently moved house (FINALLY got the keys about 3 weeks ago, moved in last week once it was fit-ish to live in). The people next door are lovely, and I think we're going to get along well. They also have children one of whom is slightly older than our son, so lots of potential for them to play together etc.

The issue I'm facing at the moment, is they have an older son (I think they said he's 7) who has low functioning ASD. He's a climber, escapes often. He ends up in our garden several times a day, which as a rule I don't mind in the slightest, (he and his younger sister have already been over a few times to play in the garden with our son when OH is at work and I'm out there to keep an eye that they're playing on the lawn where it's safe not on the patio where it isn't) but we're currently renovating the house, so there are often things which are unsafe in the back garden (think work horses which he's been found sitting on, circular saws, chisels etc). These are all put away between uses so our own son can play in the garden, but there are times where the tools etc are out in the garden and OH is in the house fitting whichever thing he's just made/cut etc. It's impractical to lock away the tools every time he comes back into the house as he's building a kitchen from scratch, so there are lots of ins and outs to make adjustments, it would make the job take months. We keep the gate shut, but he's coming in over the shed roof (one giant building split between both houses, I assume the old coal shed and outhouse so not something we can move). We have no problem with him being there when OH is out to keep an eye, and once the garden is set up properly with the toys etc once the renovations are done he's welcome to come and go as he pleases, it's not a territorial thing, I'm just petrified he's going to hurt himself, as he has no fear or sense of danger as far as I can see.
The first few times it happened I just took him back to his own garden, but when it kept happening, I started giving the back door a quick knock to let them know I'd brought him out of our garden because there are tools etc lying about. It hasn't stopped him coming over (he's non-verbal and I don't know him well enough to know how much of what I say to him he's able to understand). At the moment there are a load of MASSIVE wooden boards under a tarp for the kitchen, and some big items waiting for the council to collect to scrap piled up on the patio, with nowhere else to go, if they fell on him they could seriously hurt him. I've just tried to tie them to the wall of the house, but they're still not secure enough I'd be confident a child could play safely near them.
I feel I need to speak with his Mam about my concerns, but I don't want to offend or upset her. She has a lot on her plate (home alone most of the day with him and two others), I don't want it to come across as critical or judgey, or a 'get orf my laand' attitude, because that's not the case, but the comments about the garden not being safe at the moment don't seem to be registering. I need her to try something different to keep him out of the garden just in the short term as I can't be out there all of the time watching her son; we have baby number 2 due on Monday, so I'm up to my neck trying to get as much of the house sorted as I can before we're working around a toddler AND a newborn.

Any tips on how to handle things without causing a rift will be gratefully received (or if there's something obvious I haven't thought about regarding making the garden safe/secure that would be welcomed too). Sorry for the War and Peace effort!!

Doesn't his mum chase after him when he's escaped? If he's in your garden, can she see everything he's doing? It's not your responsibility to make sure he's safe - I know that sounds hard, but surely it's his parents' responsibility to make sure he stays within their garden? How does he come in?

Oh god, just re-read and he's coming over the shed roof. That's really dangerous! Could she have high fencing put up?

You sound lovely OP - I would just try explaining the issue the same way you have here, and she will understand! It’s clear that you’re a very nice person trying to be welcoming but also look out for his safety!

That was helpful hollow. Anything else?

Just knock and explain what you have typed here, you are worried he will hurt himself.

Just explain - be kind (as you clearly are) and stress you’re worried about him hurting himself.

The fence and gate are already 6ft tall. So far they've never seemed to notice he's gone, so I seldom know how long he's been out there. There are trees along the boundary line up to the shed, so only a tiny proportion of our garden they'd be able to see into unless they were stood on a ladder/the shed roof. I can't see into theirs at all, as they have a conservatory on the only bit I imagine they can see of ours.
I just need her to try and keep him out of the garden until it's safe, then he can spend as much time in there as he wants. He's a lovely boy from what I've seen so far, as are his siblings I'm hoping for them all to be able to spend a lot of time in that garden with our two in time to come. There's a locked alleyway between the two houses shared only by us, the back gates into the gardens are right opposite each other on opposite sides of a little courtyard where the bins are stored, so once the garden is set up to play in, we can peg the gate open and he can come and go safely without having to climb, and they can come to fetch him when they want/need to. I just need to get the garden to that point first.

Might this shed roof be asbestos?

Aw what a lovely person you sound op.

Yep explain to her exactly how dangerous it is. If that’s not registering I think you may need to think again.

I have to say you are a better person than me my pet hate was the kids next door trying to swuirrel through the hedge and play on our kids toys. It’s so rude to just do this.

Unfortunately, regardless of how much Mum has on her plate, you can’t ignore a 7 year old non-verbal child climbing shed roofs to escape. So his parents really do need to step up.

They can not allow him free access unsupervised to the garden, for starters.

They need to safeguard their own child, no matter how hard.

Could you have a chat to see if she gets any respite or help from outside agencies?

You’re being very kind and understanding, but you’re going to have to make it clear that he can’t just climb over into your garden ever.

It’s not just because you have dangerous items lying around right now either. You can’t set a precedent of being relaxed and OK with him being in your garden, because there will come a time when it starts pissing you off and it’ll be so difficult to stop, because you used to act like it was fine.

I can’t believe they’re letting their vulnerable child repeatedly climb up and over a shed and into someone else’s garden in the first place. That is neglectful parenting.

Have they got stuff stacked against their shed which is making it easier for him to climb?

You sound very caring OP. Definitely have a word and let his mum know he is climbing in. Maybe she turns her back for 2 mins and he is gone and she hasn’t realised, as you are taking him back, without mentioning!

You have to talk to her and make her understand it's not acceptable because, were the child to hurt himself in your garden, regardless of whether he is there with permission or not, you could find yourself in court for liability.

Hopefully most courts would take a dim view of his parents not keeping tighter reigns on him but theoretically it could be you who finds yourself in trouble under occupiers liability.

I think you really need to raise this with his parents again, he can hurt himself easily. I would tell them what you described that you are renovating and there are lots of tools, etc around and you can’t watch him and guarantee anything even when you are at home. It’s very strange that they didn’t act after his first escape.
Also I would be very careful with saying that he is welcome to your garden any time after renovation.

Ask the mum to come and see your garden. Show her what dangers are there. That might resonate a bit more. If she is that busy she might not give it as much thought as it needs.

I remember 30 years ago, a colleague with young kids moved into a new house and didn’t spot the hole in the garden fence. His youngest went through to the neighbour’s garden and drowned in the pond. He was understandably devastated, but in no way blamed the neighbours for having a hazardous open pond. It’s really up to your neighbour to look after her own son - all you can do is warn her of the dangers, OP. You will have your hands full with the new baby soon, and can’t stand guard over the work tools all day! You sound v thoughtful and kind hearted, I’m sure she won’t think for a minute that you’re complaining rather than concerned for safety.

I think you're very right to be concerned, and I'd pop round to say you're getting really worried about it and it has to stop. Whilst saying you aren't angry about it, you're genuinely terrified he's going to get hurt and it's hampering your progress on the house. And offer your help to barricade the garden from her side to put a stop to it.

She's not taking responsibility for her son at the end of the day but it's you that will be liable if he does get hurt.

You sound very concerned and caring, OP. Letting his parents know about the dangers in your garden is an absolute necessity. They can’t make keeping him safe a priority without this information and hopefully they will step up their supervision of him.

I think you need to go over and explain that while you’re working on the house she needs to find a way to keep him from climbing over. Let her know how long the work is going to go in for (if you only have a rough guess, then give her that but overestimate rather than under estimate) to help make it clear that you aren’t just annoyed at him coming over.

Really she ought to be finding some more permanent solution. He doesn’t sound like he should really be being left in the garden unsupervised if he can climb over the shed. It’s lovely that you don’t mind but it’s not really keeping him safe. His mum is probably in desperate need of more help, though.

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas There's every chance it is. The Homebuyers report came back saying it was potentially in the shed roof, fascias (sp?) and cavity walls. We have two friends who live within a few streets, both of whom have had it confirmed as only in the shed roof, so I imagine ours is the same. As it stands, it's safe (we had it checked over before we completed), but I'd still be happier if he wasn't regularly climbing/sitting/dancing/jumping on it as it will shorten the time we have to find the money to replace it. Only half of the roof is our responsibility, but theirs is a rental so I don't know what will happen when it comes time that it needs replacing, as it won't be cheap, and I can't imagine a landlord being happy to spend such an amount on a rental shed roof! tries not to think about it

She's been into the garden twice to retrieve him when his sister has been outside and told her Mam that he's over in our garden. When she knows he's there, she fetches him back in, but she doesn't notice more than she does. I opened the door to a parcel yesterday and he was running loose on the green outside the houses in nothing but an incontinence pad, again I gave them a knock at the front door this time, so it was only about the first three times I took him home without mentioning I'd done so. I started knocking every time after that.

He's just wandered in through the patio doors (the sodding handle came off in my hand yesterday so we can't lock it until OH gets home from work via B&Q to get a new one. Anyone seen The Money Pit? Just waiting to see where the rabid forest animals are hiding given the lack of a dumbwaiter) and is sat on the floor playing with DS's magnifying glass. Now may be my chance to broach it with her when I take him home.

You could open by asking her how you can best get across to him that your garden is unsafe at the moment - e.g. do they use PECS (pictures) with him? That might prevent her going on the defensive immediately and lead you on to say why it's unsafe. Stress how you're looking forward to them all playing together once it's sorted.

You are being too nice I'm afraid. It is lovely that you are so understanding but by allowing him to play sometimes means he (and the mum) might thing you don't mind. I'd take him back and speak to the mum every single time. Yes she has a lot on her plate and it must be really hard but a child who has no fear and is a flight risk shouldn't be left unsupervised. She may be able to maker her garden less escapable.

I have an ASD child who can be very difficult and antisocial and I always try to make sure his negative behaviours don't impact on other people. I would be trying really hard to resolve this problem if my son was doing this to my neighbours. Yes I'd be mortified about neighbours contstantly returning him but it is for the best. He is small and manageable now but what about when he's 12 and the same size as you?

I think you need to establish your privacy anyway in this situation. It's all very well saying they seem nice children and so on, but you need to be able to be private and spend time with your children in your own garden, as well as welcome others occasionally. If you make it a 'free for all' now, then if there are any issues (e.g. one of their children is not nice/hits/doesn't play nicely) with yours- it's going to be so much harder. Visits have to be invitation only.

You keep saying they seem so nice, but the parents literally haven't noticed a missing 7 year old on several occasions. This is a real fail on their part and you also say they aren't taking any hints.

I think direct and plain is the way forward in this discussion. You can't expect to keep it all friendly and nice all the time, it may be that you have to be assertive, but you simply dont' know these people or these children and so you have to have boundaries so that if in the future, for safety or any other reason, you don't want them in your garden (whether you are there or not) that is accepted and not questioned by them.

Invite only, child returned with a blunt request that he is NOT allowed in to wander whatsoever (no discussion of who is or isn't there, you aren't their part-time babysitters!)

then he can spend as much time in there as he wants

For the sake of your own sanity OP do not do this!!!
Having other kids is no excuse for his parents to allow this, he could have walked out your garden and turned up anywhere they need to secure him.

Place your boundaries NOW! By invitation only or you'll soon find a teen/grown man coming over the fence whenever he wants, don't let it become a habit for him or you'll never truly be able to relax in your own garden.

Take him back every time and remind family, invite only. Can you imagine the fuss if he gets hurt on your property?!
It's too risky and I personally wouldn't allow it.
If you let this continue, you'll find you have no choice to take responsibility for him each and everytime. His parents need to secure fences or remove his access point and he needs better supervision.

That's the parents/carers job not yours, do not engage beyond polite neighbourly behaviour...so what if his mum's worn out, or he's a sweet boy, I'm sure he is but that could change in a millisecond, then his sibling and your children ARE AT RISK! It's not something I would take on lightly.

I say this not only as a mum of 3 whos eldest has ASD but also as a neighbour of a family who allow their (NT) child to climb or literally knock down fences to our gardens and knock on doors anywhere from 7am til 9pm and no one gives a shit, unfortunately for us the parents are not kind or understanding about it, in fact we get a bollocking for merely suggesting their little (preteen) darling shouldn't be inviting herself into people's homes and gardens, and no one's allowed to tell child off for any of their awful behaviours, trust me it's very wearing after a while.