Delicate situation

[PeapodBurgundy]

Not sure how to play this one at all, so I thought I'd ask here for want of somewhere else.

We've recently moved house (FINALLY got the keys about 3 weeks ago, moved in last week once it was fit-ish to live in). The people next door are lovely, and I think we're going to get along well. They also have children one of whom is slightly older than our son, so lots of potential for them to play together etc.

The issue I'm facing at the moment, is they have an older son (I think they said he's 7) who has low functioning ASD. He's a climber, escapes often. He ends up in our garden several times a day, which as a rule I don't mind in the slightest, (he and his younger sister have already been over a few times to play in the garden with our son when OH is at work and I'm out there to keep an eye that they're playing on the lawn where it's safe not on the patio where it isn't) but we're currently renovating the house, so there are often things which are unsafe in the back garden (think work horses which he's been found sitting on, circular saws, chisels etc). These are all put away between uses so our own son can play in the garden, but there are times where the tools etc are out in the garden and OH is in the house fitting whichever thing he's just made/cut etc. It's impractical to lock away the tools every time he comes back into the house as he's building a kitchen from scratch, so there are lots of ins and outs to make adjustments, it would make the job take months. We keep the gate shut, but he's coming in over the shed roof (one giant building split between both houses, I assume the old coal shed and outhouse so not something we can move). We have no problem with him being there when OH is out to keep an eye, and once the garden is set up properly with the toys etc once the renovations are done he's welcome to come and go as he pleases, it's not a territorial thing, I'm just petrified he's going to hurt himself, as he has no fear or sense of danger as far as I can see.
The first few times it happened I just took him back to his own garden, but when it kept happening, I started giving the back door a quick knock to let them know I'd brought him out of our garden because there are tools etc lying about. It hasn't stopped him coming over (he's non-verbal and I don't know him well enough to know how much of what I say to him he's able to understand). At the moment there are a load of MASSIVE wooden boards under a tarp for the kitchen, and some big items waiting for the council to collect to scrap piled up on the patio, with nowhere else to go, if they fell on him they could seriously hurt him. I've just tried to tie them to the wall of the house, but they're still not secure enough I'd be confident a child could play safely near them.
I feel I need to speak with his Mam about my concerns, but I don't want to offend or upset her. She has a lot on her plate (home alone most of the day with him and two others), I don't want it to come across as critical or judgey, or a 'get orf my laand' attitude, because that's not the case, but the comments about the garden not being safe at the moment don't seem to be registering. I need her to try something different to keep him out of the garden just in the short term as I can't be out there all of the time watching her son; we have baby number 2 due on Monday, so I'm up to my neck trying to get as much of the house sorted as I can before we're working around a toddler AND a newborn.

Any tips on how to handle things without causing a rift will be gratefully received (or if there's something obvious I haven't thought about regarding making the garden safe/secure that would be welcomed too). Sorry for the War and Peace effort!!

I don't ever get much of a response, just an 'okay and thank you' level answer.

Your DH/you need to push for answers to how they’ll stop him - locks on doors & windows, only in their garden supervised etc. Ask to see how he’s getting up there, tell them about the asbestos in the roof and the danger (& expense to you) if it caves in.

They need to take it extremely seriously because it is extremely serious. You need to stop thinking of it as a ‘delicate issue’ and more of a ‘serious safeguarding issue’.

You sound lovely. But you can’t be lovely about this.

I've already said I'm going to go through the thread with OH tonight, and see if he can find out if/which school they attend and flag it with them first. They'll have a clearer picture of the family than we do in terms of any support they receive, and will be better placed to get help involved rather than going in guns blazing and potentially causing more issues with a full on SS report.

Sorry if it's been suggested and if it sounds ridiculous but I have worked with children with SEN and with ASD and the first thing we always try with any issue is visual symbols, so something like a no entry sign - just a laminated picture even - which goes up when it's not safe and another picture which shows 'safe to enter'. As others have said, you sound incredibly lovely and kind. Hope you get things worked out.

OP, going through the school etc are all delay tactics in reality. You are prolonging the amount of time this issue goes on for, and thereby increasing the likelihood of him getting seriously hurt. And I think the likelihood is high. Just get OH to go round there now and have a proper conversation about it. By all means reach out to the school as well but PLEASE put this child out of danger if you can now!

Now you are avoiding the issue by talking about potted plants on the shed roof!! No!!!

When you next take him back and get the "OK, thanks" response then say "We need to have a word, please. This has gone beyond a joke and you need to stop him from entering our garden and our house".

That might sound harsh, but they have taken the piss so far, so you need to be unequivocal.

Another point - presumably you'll want the new baby to spend some time outside in the fresh air?

How do you feel that will work when next door's lad comes over and finds something as fascinating as a new baby?

I really don't feel it's a delay tactic, I don't think it's fair to go in at the top level without giving a chance for other things to be tried first. Once a SS report has been made, there's no going back, nor is there any guarantee she's get anything other than more pressure. Home school support and liaison was getting much better last time I was in schools in a professional capacity (not that long ago). They may even still have HV involvement who can go round to aid safety proofing the home etc.

Me speaking with them hasn't worked, OH is a bit more forthright than I am, he'll be going over tonight when he's home (I can't imagine him not if I ask him to, he's dealt with these kinds of issues more than I have, and doesn't really bat an eyelid).

Schools would not be able to discuss another family's child with you. It would breach data protection. You are probably unlikely to get anywhere.

You need to be much more direct with the mother yourself, and if that has no effect then yes, absolutely go to Social Services. It is a child safeguarding issue whether you like it or not.

Are you going to get your Dh to tell the neighbour that her boy is climbing on the shed roof and coming into your garden without you knowing and you want her to stop him?

I agree that ringing NDN and getting her to collect child is better than you returning him.

I have a bolter, and so outside doors have high bolts, window lock keys are kept up high behind the curtains, other doors have bells. Other people may think I'm over reacting if I refuse to let him do or insist on joining in certain parties/beaver activities/day trips with certain people but I've seen him run There was a point when it felt like we didn't move without a risk assessment of some sort! Why isn't your neighbour in a similar frame of mind? The not knowing and seemingly not caring is worrying. Is it a lack of caring, lack of forward thinking or have they just had absolutely enough and are not coping and need support?

Topseyt They wouldn't need to discuss anything with me, I can raise my concerns and request they pass it on to the relevant people.

HonkyWonkWoman I've already been through it, she's seen what's stacked up on the patio when she's been to get him down from the shed roof, and I've explicitly pointed it out to her and said I don't want him to hurt himself. She'll bring him in once she knows he's out. The issue is her not knowing he's out/not preventing him getting out. I don't know how I can put that across to her without telling her how to raise her children which isn't my place to do. I can't demand she gets door locks/window latches/gate bolts. There may even be tenancy restrictions on some of them (our previous place was a rental, and we had a fire escape window we had a right job making safe without breaching the tenancy agreement and landlord insurance. We just put a catch on it anyway in the end, and lost most of our security deposit on account).

All the best to your dh this evening.

I can understand your wanting to take an incremental approach rather than go in guns blazing with threats of safeguarding and SS. It is not irresponsible to apply diplomacy rather than go straight to war. There is room for gradual escalation beyond softly softly (which you have done but got nowhere) which is short of nuclear.

With your child safeguarding background, you probably have more inkling than many of us about how these situations pan out for the child and the family. I doubt SS is some magic wand that will solve the problem for you and the child.

I hope that your dh manages to knock some sense into your neighbour otherwise I suspect SS involvement will make things worse rather than better for their family. I too wonder whether the previous owner tried and failed and decided to move (before the boy gets too big) rather than pull the trigger of reporting the family.

Nobody seems to use common sense in the U.K. It’s all about safeguarding reports and so on.

Every time the little nipper pops his head up to climb on the shed roof splash him with cold water from a hosepipe. He’ll soon learn and he will be safe from collapsing roofs and dangerous tools. As a previous poster said, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

I have a feeling his mam won’t mind and if she does tell her you thought he was that big old wood pigeon who’s been make a nuisance of himself.

You need to be more direct. After she says ‘ok thanks’ ask her what she’s going to do / can do to stop her child from climbing over into your garden where it’s extremely dangerous for him.

he issue is her not knowing he's out/not preventing him getting out. I don't know how I can put that across to her without telling her how to raise her children which isn't my place to do. I can't demand she gets door locks/window latches/gate bolts. There may even be tenancy restrictions on some of them (our previous place was a rental, and we had a fire escape window we had a right job making safe without breaching the tenancy agreement and landlord insurance. We just put a catch on it anyway in the end, and lost most of our security deposit on account).

OP, it may very well come to this. You have to get rid of your embarrassment otherwise you will be trapping yourself in this eddy of returning her son and living by the grace of god he does not seriously hurt himself in your house.

And then if that does not work, your dh may very well have to drop SS into the situation ...

I hate to say it but you have to man up or get your dh to do it.

@Charolais

So she needs to stand in her garden all day watching?

He's doing it several times a day. His own mum doesn't even notice, but OP should be standing guard to hose him down every time he tries? How does that work?

She's got blades sitting in the garden - chainsaw etc and he's jumping off a bloody roof! Do we need to explain what could happen? And it only takes one time. OP does not need the stress of always having to check he isn't there. And the mum isn't taking it in board. She isn't even trying.

Thing is op, if school think there's a danger they HAVE to go to ss. So it's going to have go to ss to get anything in place.Often the safeguarding measures she needs putting in place can only be done through ss. Also unless you're in Scotland there's another 3 weeks til the kids go back to school.

So she needs to stand in her garden all day watching?

I’m sure the OP has figured out the child’s MO by now and besides one day of sitting in the garden to prevent a future accident is worth it. The idea is to stop him from breaching the perimeter. With a well aimed blast he’ll be jumping back from where he came.

If this keeps up, if he lives that long, the OP will have to invest in a fire hose. (A fire hose is what firemen use - I’m not talking about a flame thrower).

Why go to the school? Honestly, they’re there to teach and yes, safeguarding is absolutely their concern, but reporting it to the school so they can tell social services because you don’t want too seems like a colossal waste of everyone’s time.

School will still be hesitant to intervene. It isn't just confidentiality and data protection. You are essentially asking them to become involved in a dispute between neighbours, which is a precedent they are likely to want to avoid.

What I don't understand is how you think ANY child should have free access to your garden. When she's called round to get him off the shed roof you've pointed at the tools and building materials and told her that you don't want the boy to hurt himself.
You just need to tell her that you don't want anyone coming into your garden without being invited.
When your baby is a toddler you might want her to potter about in your safe and secure garden. How can you do that when there is a 9year old boy gaining access without your knowledge.
I think that you need to ask your Dh to be very firm with your next door neighbour that you are not happy with it at all and it must stop.

@HonkyWonkWoman because neighbors are so good at doing as requested!!!

blueshoes you've phrased that so much better than I have been. That's my concern. I'm aware I'm not handling the situation effectively, hence asking for other people's input. But for those exact reasons I'm hesitant to go straight in at a SS referral unless I felt there wasn't another option. As it stands, I really feel there are things that can be done which could fix or at least help the issue, without a full on SG referral. SS do their best, and this area has some truely amazing social workers who care so much, and go to the end of the earth for the families they support, but the pressure they're under results in some pretty quick decisions being made sometimes, which I've seen first hand cause more harm than good. This is what I don't want to happen. She's permanently harassed and flustered (hence two of her children coming over to play on those occasions). I really don't feel it's lack of care, I think it's lack of coping. I'm not really in a position to offer support and my hands are about to get a whole person fuller, it will take me time to adjust to keeping my own family safe without being on edge about hers too.

And yes, even if they do mention it to anyone, that is likely to be Social Services.

Go to Social Services yourself. It can be done in such a way that they do not name you in any of their correspondence with the family. They would just say that there had been a significant number of reports about him getting out and roaming around, sometimes inappropriately dressed etc.