To not want sil to provide childcare

[Wadewilson]

I'm fully prepared to be told iabu, and possibly a bit snobby but that's why I'm asking.

Sil has a part time job during the day that she absolutely hates. She only gets £200/ month for it, but they need that extra money so she can't quit.
I'm due to go back to work after mat leave soon, and local nurseries are about £800/month. DH has suggested instead of that, speaking to his sister and offering her 300-400/month to provide childcare. Cheaper for us than nursery, and she could quit the job she hates and have more money.

The issue is, I dont want her to. I love sil, she's like an actual sister to me and I love spending time with her. But, her children spend almost 24/7 on phones and tablets (they are 2 and 6). If they are playing with toys rather than tablets they are told to be quiet and just go on the tablet instead of making noise. They are also fed convenience foods all the time. Constantly having chocolate, sweets, ice lollies. Actual meals are things like potato waffles with beans and sausage from a tin, frozen pizzas, that sort of thing. The nearest I've seen her children have to a home cooked meal is spag bol from a can. We are there quite a lot, so see a good range of their meals. We've also been away with them before, and all the children will eat is things like burgers and pizzas and chicken nuggets.
I know I sound really snobby and awful by saying that, but that isn't what we eat and definitely not what I want dc to eat. When i was growing up it was all home cooked food, vegetables, proper meals. That's what we eat now, and thats what i want dc to grow up eating. I know i cant force dc to like vegetables and things, but if vegetables and home cooked food is normal there is more chance of them liking it.

Aibu by thinking that? And aibu for not wanting her to provide childcare?
And do people have any other options? We could afford the 800 for nursery, but it would make things tight, and dh is insistent about not paying it and giving his sister money instead.

Kardashianlove he would want to do it as a monthly bank transfer because that's what sil would want so it can be used to pay bills. I said he would need to take it out in cash, bits here and there, then sil use it for shopping and things. No bank involvement. He thinks that as sil claims no benefits it would be fine and nobody would check, same as nobody checks our standing orders into the joint account. Does anyone know if he is being naive about this, or would nobody check as there are no benefits involved?

Quartz2208 he wants to present it as a very short term thing, from when dc is 1 until 2/3. Of course that would mean she would quit her job, get used to having more money and then it stop with no contingencies which I think would be a bigger issue for sil than he thinks.

PrincessScarlett he says he is happy with nursery/child minder once dc is old enough to know if something is wrong and can tell us. He says at 1 they would be very vulnerable as they cant tell us properly if something is happening that is wrong.

I wouldn't mind say 2 days a week when I know there are local children's centre groups on if sil would take dc to those. Eg Monday and Wednesday sil had dc and took them to messy play, sensory play, soft play and something else.

No need to worry about paying for days out. If SIL doesn't take her own children out, she's not going to bother taking them all out now. It'll be even more hassle getting them ready when you add a baby to the mix. Does she even have a suitable double buggy?

So, if your husband agrees with you re screen time (food can be provided by you, as long as it's not something she needs to cook, because she's not going to spend time cooking food from scratch) how does he think this is going to work? She's not going to treat your child differently to her own children. If she can't be arsed to do anything with them, she's not going to do anything with your child.

And in reply to where's the compromise, and why is your opinion worth more than his, well, yours is an informed opinion, his isn't. Your opinion is the correct one, for all the reasons mentioned on here. The fact that he's willing to break the law, risk your job, and have his child growing up in a detrimental environment, means that his opinion doesn't count.

So, what's SIL said? Has she handed in her notice yet? Are you just going to go along with it?

We cross posted, so I've only just read this.
I wouldn't mind say 2 days a week when I know there are local children's centre groups on if sil would take dc to those. Eg Monday and Wednesday sil had dc and took them to messy play, sensory play, soft play and something else.

But she's not going to do that! If she doesn't do these things with her own children, she's not going to do them with yours. However she raises her children, is how she'll raise yours.

You know, I don't believe your husband when he agrees with you about screen time and food. I think he thinks there's nothing wrong with it, but it's just easier to agree, because words are cheap, but when it actually comes down to it, he doesn't really care. If he did, he wouldn't even be contemplating using his sister for childcare.

nobody checks our standing orders into the joint account. Does anyone know if he is being naive about this
He’s being incredibly naive. Yes, nobody checks your standing orders, etc but they would if you were investigated for an illegal activity such as tax avoidance.

It is very unlikely that you would be investigated but it does happen. People get jealous that you are getting cheap childcare when they aren’t or feel it’s morally wrong that SIL isn’t paying tax and NI etc and report it.
If you are going to do it, you need to maintain to everyone that SIL is not taking any payment, it’s expenses only and pay her cash. People who know her will probably twig that she would t have quit her job to do this for free and it only takes one person to make one phonecall.

at 1 they would be very vulnerable yes, exactly, why would you want your 1 year old on a tablet all day and not being played with properly. That’s the age they are vulnerable and need an adult to set up activities with them - painting, colouring, water play, collecting leaves in the garden, sitting doing puzzles, building towers, etc.

I do understand his concerns over childcare and if SIL sounded like she parented similarly to you then it would be worth considering. But you have to weigh up the risks to your DD with both environments.

When you ask him if he wants his DD on a tablet for 4/5/6(??? or more I don’t know??) hours a day what does he say?

Go and see the childminders you found with him, ask about telly/tablets, ask what activities they do and what their day looks like and see what he says.

Ah so it appears your DHs blinkered view is because of the nursery closing down due to abuse. You do realise that neglect is a firm of abuse as well. If your DD is going to be ignored for long periods of time then that will have a detrimental affect on her development.

However, you know your SIL so if food and screen time is the only issue (which I'm not sure it is given what you have said) then you can give her strict instructions.

Also, don't underestimate that noone will find out about your "arrangement". People are always bring nosy about other peoples comings and goings and it is pretty common for people to get reported by childcare professionals as well as neighbours when they suspect unregistered/unqualified childcare or undeclared earnings.

*form of abuse
*being noisy
Bloody predictive text!

Or nosy even!!

You do realise that neglect is a form of abuse as well. If your DD is going to be ignored for long periods of time then that will have a detrimental affect on her development.
Excellent point princess.

Is your SIL in receipt of benefits ? Is she going to declare these new earnings ? Or is your dh going to be the accessory in benefit fraud . If she is in receipt and does declare they will want to see bank statements and then you dh will be caught ( if it is illegal ) Worse if she doesn’t declare and gets caught. I hope neither of you are accountants or lawyers ?

It's funny how your DH talks about you compromising, but isn't willing to do it himself!

I think you need to talk to your SiL and get it clear in your mind, how she would fit your DC into her schedule, what she would feed him, play with him etc. Just as you're doing with childminders.

@user agree if SIL looks after other children in her own home she could be considered self employed but if the arrangement is only her own children and OP's DD then she cannot be self employed.

I used to use a friend 2 days a week to look after DD1 and she claimed she was self employed so I started off paying her gross and she sent me an invoice every week. However 2 months into the arrangement she came to me in a panic saying HMRC had been in touch and she was actually considered my employee so then i had to set up a payroll and pension for her and get insurance for myself and get her DBS checked. It was very expensive and lots of hassle

At 1 literally the only thing they want (after being fed and clean) is engagement with other people. I couldn’t compromise about putting my tiny baby in a sub par environment. Why does your dh want that kind of environment? Your sil will not take your dc anywhere when she has to pack up her older kids to get there- and it would be cheeky to suggest she make that effort for the peanuts you are paying her. If you send snacks the other kids will eat them too so you will be paying for snacks for everything.
Your dh is manipulating you when he says things likearent you willing to compromise. The appropriate answer is where the hell was your compromise when you contacted sil without discussing and agreeing it with me?! I spend all day looking after our dc and you dismissed my input as worthless. I’ve put them down for a childminder who seems excellent, and next time you can compromise and we can work things out together.

I said he would need to take it out in cash, bits here and there, then sil use it for shopping and things

Why are you giving him solutions to a huge problem? A situation you don't want!

Why are you giving him solutions to a huge problem? A situation you don't want!

Because I suspect OP's going to go along with it.

She gets £200 for 10 hours per week

You will give her £400 50 hours per week

Seriously I doubt she hates her job that much!

And that aside no way on hells earth would I put my child there!

Those early years are crucial to our later development, think about the lack of social opportunities etc the lack of educational play

It’s not worth it!!!!!

Over rule your husband this is your child!

So what has SIL said?

You are clearly not making any progress with DH and it seems he is the one who makes the decisions, so you have to find a work around.

Have you considered contacting his sister directly and getting some information in writing (email) from her. If she is to be your children's paid primary carer, its reasonable to ask her what she will be providing.

So ask about communication and language, physical development, personal, social and emotional development, literacy, mathematics, understanding the world, expressive arts and design etc.

State what you expect in terms of healthy food, screen time, outside time, trips, structured play, assessments, regular progress updates, potential ofsted inspections, pay and conditions and everything else you would expect a nursery to provide.

You really need your SIL to understand that as you will be her employer you will be expecting more than just dumping your DC in a room with a tablet and packet of crisps.

This is ridiculous. You don't want this, you don't think it is right for your DC. Why are you running around trying to appease him? You need to find childcare you are both happy with.

I don't believe it's about anxiety re abuse at all. It's about saving money, and him being in control. For what its's worth, your DC wont be able to say if anything is wrong at your SIL any better than elsewhere. I am not suggesting abuse btw, but boredom, lack of engagement, too much tv, crap food or whatever.

As I said already, you should think carefully about all of this. Not just in terms of the best interests of your DC, but in terms of your relationship going forward. It will be setting a precedent re his wishes being more important than your own Not to mention the resentment that you will almost certainly have both now, and in the future.

that would mean she would quit her job, get used to having more money and then it stop with no contingencies

Does SiL know this?

I think DH's concerns about abuse may well be real, if there was a situation of that happening in your area.
That is a difficult one to counter.

How about DH going part time, to do some of the childcare?

Dont do it.
Similar situation with my sil paying her mum to pretty much raise her dc.
Neice is glued to YouTube all day since aged 1 (shes now nearly 4) and even speaks with an American accent from watching THAT MUCH YouTube!
Her nan does fuck all but scroll on her phone all day and feeds neice packaged foods, sweets, lollies and the lot all day every day. I know because i see it as all the time. Its a joke. I could write a whole thread on how bad an idea it is especially saying how your sil is raising her own children with a totally different view to how you want to raise yours.

OP
He wants to present it as a short term thing - he’s backtracking! You’ve brought up the 30hours at 3yrs and all of a sudden he’s ok with Nurseries for that age! There are amazing nurseries! Check the Ofsted reports (and how long ago they were) and I’m sorry but nursery nurses care for the children very deeply! We are still in touch of one of my DS’s!

You would be happy with 2 days a week if SIL took her to local children’s centres / toddler groups etc. - How do you know SIL would do that? Have you explained to SIL what you would be looking for?

A compromise would be doing a tester day with you laying out exactly what you wanted dc to do and eat.
And getting a full run down after.

OP how much parenting does he do as to be honest however much your SIL hates her 10hour a week job looking after 4 children is tough this actually is not fair on her either IF she would be taking it seriously

For it to work she is going to need to act like a childminder with her own kids and for the money it’s too much to ask her

He clearly does not parent and just wants to save money.

Just because one nursery had issues does not mean they all do! As with all childcare that’s why you should research and keep attentive. We chose nursery as if one member of staff was potentially having a bad day there would be plenty of others there to allow them to take timeout etc - particularly when DCs were very young. We have friends whose children did not settle with particular childminders and yet when went to a different childminder were extremely happy. The family implications of having to potentially remove your child from SIL in future if things aren’t going well are immense. Many nurseries do daily or weekly ‘diary’ sheets indicating what children have done whilst with them. Will SIL do similar? Has she agreed she will be planning her day around your child’s interests rather than forcing them to fit in with what she wants to do? The whole idea of your DH stating he would lie to the authorities about payment if ever investigated is very worrying. You realise they would not just accept his word you knew nothing about it and you would also be interviewed? Would you also lie? Have you really discussed the possible implications of what could amount to criminal charges? If he’s suggesting he solely pays the £400 which SIL would charge, if your finances aren’t joined then can you pay the rest towards professional childcare? ie spin it to him that the cost to him won’t be any more than he has proposed. I really feel for you as I remember the dilemmas I had but I had a DH who was just as concerned as me about doing what was right for DC rather than cost cutting or appeasing family members. Good luck and follow your instincts.

I'm going to see sil today to talk through it and explain why it won't work. Basically I'm going to mention a lot of negatives (illegality, practicality, school run, affecting relationship, long hours, crap pay, short term only, expectation, feelings of obligation, extra fuel for her to get to mine -30-45m each way in rush hour so would easily wipe out the money-), I'll go through the thread before I leave to make sure I haven't missed anything.
I've already spoke to her just after dh did and told her that it was just an idea he had and not to rely on it happening as we needed to discuss it properly.
I would like to not affect our relationship, so I can hardly say to her I don't want my dc being brought up like yours are, so that will limit some of the reasons I can mention.

Regarding the person who asked about dh saying he'd lie, yes he would expect me to as well. Not only would I lose my current job, I'd lose my professional registration and not be able to get another job in the area I spent 5 years training for and the only thing I've ever wanted to do. That's enough reason for me to not do it regardless of anything else. Adding into it the lack of attention and different parenting means it just isn't happening.