To not want sil to provide childcare

[Wadewilson]

I'm fully prepared to be told iabu, and possibly a bit snobby but that's why I'm asking.

Sil has a part time job during the day that she absolutely hates. She only gets £200/ month for it, but they need that extra money so she can't quit.
I'm due to go back to work after mat leave soon, and local nurseries are about £800/month. DH has suggested instead of that, speaking to his sister and offering her 300-400/month to provide childcare. Cheaper for us than nursery, and she could quit the job she hates and have more money.

The issue is, I dont want her to. I love sil, she's like an actual sister to me and I love spending time with her. But, her children spend almost 24/7 on phones and tablets (they are 2 and 6). If they are playing with toys rather than tablets they are told to be quiet and just go on the tablet instead of making noise. They are also fed convenience foods all the time. Constantly having chocolate, sweets, ice lollies. Actual meals are things like potato waffles with beans and sausage from a tin, frozen pizzas, that sort of thing. The nearest I've seen her children have to a home cooked meal is spag bol from a can. We are there quite a lot, so see a good range of their meals. We've also been away with them before, and all the children will eat is things like burgers and pizzas and chicken nuggets.
I know I sound really snobby and awful by saying that, but that isn't what we eat and definitely not what I want dc to eat. When i was growing up it was all home cooked food, vegetables, proper meals. That's what we eat now, and thats what i want dc to grow up eating. I know i cant force dc to like vegetables and things, but if vegetables and home cooked food is normal there is more chance of them liking it.

Aibu by thinking that? And aibu for not wanting her to provide childcare?
And do people have any other options? We could afford the 800 for nursery, but it would make things tight, and dh is insistent about not paying it and giving his sister money instead.

Oh I really feel for you, I was in a similar position last year.

Hope you manage to make him see sense...

I wouldn't mix business and pleasure.

If DH is considering it as a job for his sister, and if SIL's sole income is from providing childcare for one child then HMRC would classify SIL as an employee and OP/ DH the employers. As such both OP and DH would have a legal obligation to sort out paye taxes, NI, a pension, holiday pay, sick pay and get employers liability insurance. They would also have to pay minimum wage, or more, or risk some serious consequences if HMRC find out.

OP surely you don't want to put yourself or your DH in that position with HMRC?

Maybe you could give her the opportunity, question what a hypothetical day would look like etc as you would when asking about any other childcare/nanny.

She might feel that since she is being paid she should treat it more like a job and add structure/activities to the day -
Propose it as a job where she is providing a service to earn that money rather than just being given extra money to have your kids tag along with hers.

Holly woods if the OP wants to propose it as a job then she should pay her the going rate of a job not £2 an hour .

YANBU
Your priorities are totally right

I suspect you've made her sound worse than she is becuase you're jealous she'll be lookimg after your child and you won't, what if they bond etc. I understand but I also think you're not being truthful.

Just tell them both no. Job done.

Why does your husband have the final say. And I would be honest with him about the reasons why too. Feeding children crap and leaving them on a tablet all day is shit and selfish parenting. So what if he gets offended? He's a grown man, he'll get over it.

OP I am shocked that your DH went behind your back! I’m also shocked that it appears he has the final say rather than a joint decision!!!
Have you ever been out and DH has had DC? If not, this needs to happen now! And the whole ‘I change the nappies because I’m quicker’ excuse doesn’t fly with me. Get DH involved immediately! He needs to see the benefits of what an engaged parent looks like! And I would grill him when you are back about exactly what they did together. He needs to know your expectations. He needs to know exactly what is needed. And he needs to know it now

OP, if you take your DH to see potential CMs I guarantee he will say "oh very nice but it will be much nicer for DD to be with family she knows and it will be much better to pay DS rather than a stranger".

You need to stop this nonsense now. Your DD is going to be spending 5 days a week out of your care. You need to ensure you are 100% happy with her care and not just going with the flow to avoid a row with DH.

You have a million excuses above to get out of it. I just wanted to add YANBU and do not go with her for childcare. We had sil and by the end of it all we were all barely talking, loads of issues both on her side and ours and we were probably in the same boat-very different ideas on parenting

@Wadewilson

I would strongly advise you against it. You only want the best for your DC and you should be steamrolled by your DH just because he wants to save a buck.

I was really sceptical about the idea of childcare during my maternity leave. My hand was forced a little, to look for another job and it meant putting DD into nursery 5 mornings a week. Before that, DP and I were juggling it between us. I struggled to get DD to eat anything ‘wet’. I could only get her to eat solid dry food. After a couple of months there, she was eating proper meals and it made such a difference.

My sister offered to have her one day a week recently when she had a change in shift pattern. We’re closer than close and I helped raise her children but I turned her down. The main reason being it’s a big commitment. I didn’t want to put my sister out and I also had to consider that she might have times that aren’t convenient like a hospital appointments for her DD, she wants to go on holiday or she might be too ill to look after her. Childcare is far more dependable. DD loves it and it’s helped her progress in so many ways. My nursery is amazing and they’re always doing all kinds of activities. I’m fortunate to be able to work PT and spend all afternoon and evening with her. Knowing she’s playing with her friends, eating home cooked meals and being monitored by well trained staff, really makes every penny worth it. I pay £750 for PT hours, it’s 60% of my wage but it’s 100% the right choice for us.

Start looking at your options and tell DH you’re not rushing into anything. Be as honest as you can be.

Childminder would probably be cheaper but my view of childminders is rather tainted so would stick with nursery. Also isn't there tax benefits against nursery fees. Do agree with you on the diet and activities of SIL's children.

This is a difficult one. You could send your child’s food with them which is pretty normal and I did that for years. Your child would love the company with his/ her cousins and undoubtedly your SIL would actually love your child. It wouldn’t just be a business. Are her children well behaved and kind? These things are important too. I would go with the arrangement . Honestly time flies in and your child will always have a special relationship with that aunt. Could you cut back on your hours if you are paying less in childcare? Maybe encourage your SIL to become registered and then she could have a career out of the whole experience which would extend beyond your need for childcare.

It's illegal; plain and simple. If she was doing it for free it would be fine, but as soon as you pay someone to look after your child on a regular basis they need to be registered with Ofsted. You won't be able to claim tax free childcare for an unregistered provider.

It will greatly affect how you feel about work, because you'll be worrying constantly. Also, what happens if she or one of her children is sick? You instantly have no childcare to fall back on.

It's a no-brainer for me.

You're assuming she'll bite your hand off at the opportunity to look after a baby all day for virtually fuck all. I'd tell you to jog on.

winniestone37 obviously she may well do things with the children when we aren't there, I just know every time we are there they are on tablets and barely look up to say hi.
If they aren't on a tablet and are playing and making noise they are told to play quietly on a tablet (Of course may just be because we are there and she may think -wrongly- that we'd prefer quiet).
The only meals we have ever seen them eat have been like I said before, we were at a family wedding recently and neither of the children would eat the meal, complaining it was weird food. It was a chicken breast and some roast potatoes and vegetables. I've looked after the kids a couple of times while I've been on mat leave and she's been at work, and they seem very surprised if I suggest we do things together.

kmckenna477 honestly, her children are lovely when they do interact with us. Very kind, polite children when we are around. Apparently the eldest is very naughty and plays up a lot for his parents though, mil says this is because he wants the attention and any attention is better than none whether good or bad. I do get the impression that they love the attention they get when we are around. I'm assuming that's because they don't get much normally but of course I may be wrong.

Someone asked about what we spoke about the other night, sorry I can't find who now. Dh said he wants dc with family all the time, and I want dc with childminder/nursery all the time. He wanted to know why my opinion matters more than his, I said it's about dc not opinions. Structure and professional childcare is better than no structure. He agrees 're screen time and food, and does want dc to have a childhood which is as good as it can be with plenty of opportunities. A local nursery recently was closed as the children were being abused, so he mentioned that too but i said you can't never trust anyone. I mentioned the illegality, as I expected he said it doesn't bother him and it would be very unlikely to get caught. I told him I'd likely lose my job if it was. He said if we went with it he'd pay in full, completely from his accounts and say I knew nothing about the money and thought she was doing it for free. I told him nobody would believe that.
He also asked where was the compromise between what he wants and what I want.

A couple of posters have mentioned that the SIL will undoubtedly love the OPs child.

First, that’s not necessarily true. I’m sure plenty of aunts and uncles feel fond of their nephews and nieces without actually loving them.

Second, even if she does love the OPs child, so what? I’m sure the SIL loves her own children, but it doesn’t mean she has the values or parenting style that the OP is seeking. I’ve rarely, if ever, come across any parent who doesn’t love their child, but I’ve come across many parents who don’t raise their children in a way that I would value. You can love your child but still make poor choices about food, activities, screen time.

Don’t be swayed by the ‘family’ thing. This is about having consistent, good quality care in an environment you’re comfortable with.

Dh said he wants dc with family all the time, and I want dc with childminder/nursery all the time. He wanted to know why my opinion matters more than his
But it’s not about family v childcare is it? You (understandably) don’t want your DD eating rubbish, watching a screen, not being played with all day.

He agrees 're screen time and food, and does want dc to have a childhood which is as good as it can be with plenty of opportunities.
But then surely he can’t still want SIL to mind his DD?

I mentioned the illegality, as I expected he said it doesn't bother him and it would be very unlikely to get caught. I told him I'd likely lose my job if it was. He said if we went with it he'd pay in full, completely from his accounts and say I knew nothing about the money and thought she was doing it for free. I told him nobody would believe that.
Even if they did believe it, you may still get suspended under investigation, etc, you would still have to go through a lot of stress sorting it and humiliation at work.
Yes, unlikely to get caught but you would still have to lie on a regular basis, like when people at work ask if DD goes to nursery, etc. Or if SIL/her kids are unwell and you have to phone in to work due to childcare issues. Only you can decide if you want this hanging over your head long term.

He sounds a bit clueless too, saying money would come out his bank each month and you knew nothing about it. That would get his sister into massive trouble.
If you are going to do this, SIL needs to do it for ‘free’, you pay her ‘costs’ so money towards food, nappies, days out, etc. Money is taken out DH bank account in dribs and drabs, no fixed amount every month and no money going into SIL account - all cash.

He also asked where was the compromise between what he wants and what I want.
But does he really want your DD in that environment?

Ask him what he thinks about long term as well though - how it will work with the 30 free hours and taking them to preschool etc and when they start school how it will work.

Its not fair on your SIL either for a short period of time - will that money cover food/nappies etc. How about days out

Then how exactly will tax work etc

He is being naive I think as Kardashianlove says paying her costs would be the solution but that doesnt help her

And I dont think she really appreciates having to deal with 4 - how would she do the school run

What about following the EYF curriculum etc.

The compromise is 3 days at nursery and 2 days at SIL but that actually does not benefit her at all

Tablets are extremely bad for your eyes. So I would be really unhappy about this. It is like sitting right up in front of the tv.

And obviously there is the lack of physical activity.

Just say no.

If a local nursery has been closed down due to abuse I can understand there may be more anxiety about using professional childcare.

However, what is also a concern is you say your SIL's children crave attention. Your own child may start behaving like them as she will be copying behaviour/also craving attention OR they may resent their cousin because she is getting all the attention from their mum, particularly as she is a baby so will naturally need more attention.

Your DH asked where the compromise is. I would suggest one or two days a week with SIL and 3/4 days in nursery/with CM. If SIL does a fantastic job you can always think about upping her days. But if it's a complete disaster or your SIL stops wanting to do it at least you have a place with professional childcare which hopefully can accommodate extra days or at least means you only have one or two days to have to cover yourselves at short notice.

I would suggest one or two days a week with SIL and 3/4 days in nursery/with CM. I wouldn’t want my young child watching a tablet most of the day and not really being played with for 1/2 days a week on a regular basis.
Fine as a one off - I’ve had family and friends take my DC as an emergency and just said do whatever is easiest for you, feed them anything, let them have the iPad all day etc but I wouldn’t want this on a regular basis as a long term solution.

It also doesn’t solve the issue of it being illegal, risking OPs job etc. Plus there is no guarantee a childminder/nursery could just increase hours so OP may end up having to find a new childcare provider.

pinkcarpet - If SIL is going to childmind, then she will be self-employed. She would pay the basic NI Self Employed stamp - which she should register for, and she would do a self-assessment for her tax - and as her personal allowance is £11k plus, she would not have much - if any - tax to pay. That's what all childminders do. They usually look after children from more than one family - therefore she would look after her own tax affairs!!

I wouldn't want it either Kardashianlove but OPs DH appears unwilling to consider anything but SIL (and OP seems unwilling to put her foot down over this issue) so by suggesting one or two days a week as compromise the OP is meeting DH halfway.

OP says she loves SIL and gets on with her which makes it all the more tricky than if she didn't like her. OP, if you do opt for SIL care you must sit down with her and explain what is and is not acceptable. She may well be put off! You should also suggest she does a paediatric first aid course as that is the bare minimum qualification.