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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the best advice I can give my daughter is don’t have any children?

362 replies

WaitingForSunday17 · 11/08/2018 19:48

Because it is completely soul destroying and the negatives massively outweigh any positives?
I have a son too. I don’t think it’s so bad for men. I wouldn’t be so sad for him if he ended up having children. But I think for women it ruins your life and the happiest people I know - and I think some study confirmed this - are those that are child free by choice? Completely different if you want them and can’t have them I realise.

OP posts:
nicebitofquiche · 12/08/2018 11:48

YABU. And pretty nasty too if you tell your child you regret them being born.

PineapplePower · 12/08/2018 11:53

I’ve read those studies too—but here’s the thing. Children are correlated with being less happy, but also with greater life satisfaction (the two are not the same). It also varies greatly with support/income/partnership strength and such, as you’d might expect. So it’s not as clear cut as your post suggests.

You should let her make her own informed choice. That said, it’s not a bad idea to stress how bad and life-changing (for the worse) it is to have children before you’re ready—always use age-appropriate language, and do point out that some people just aren’t meant to have children, for whatever reason.

If your child is particularly ambitious, I would advise her to wait until her 30s to have children, even if she has a great partner. I met my partner in my early 20s but we put off children for a good fifteen years while we focused on careers/travel/partying. It was the right choice for us, as we can now afford help.

I think the one downside of late childbearing has been over the fact that the grandparents are a decade older, which is unfortunate and perhaps something that should be considered more widely.

SweetheartNeckline · 12/08/2018 11:59

PineapplePower plus (statistically) higher rates of infertility, less scope to space subsequent children, higher risk of a child with disabilities. Definitely agree it should be openly discussed within families and across generations; there is such a lot to consider.

minipie · 12/08/2018 12:03

My son has SN and my daughter has a long term health condition

my children are more likely to pass on the condition my daughter has

Flowers OP. IME being a parent of a child with health issues or SN (let alone both) is a completely different, and harder, experience to being a parent of a NT healthy child. I'm not sure the experiences of parents who only have healthy NT children are really comparable tbh. So if your DD has a health condition, and may well pass it on, that is going to make it much harder for her if she has children. I think it would be entirely reasonable to tell her about the additional difficulties this will add.

SandyY2K · 12/08/2018 12:21

Because it is completely soul destroying and the negatives massively outweigh any positives?

This is your experience.

Its not my experience of having children, nor that of any woman I know and I wouldn't dream of saying that to my DD.

There's no doubt in my mind that women make more sacrifices than men in having children.

I also believe that men do not fully appreciate the sacrifices women make... however to say soul destroying is quite extreme.

Not having children can bring a lot of sadness in itself.

SweetheartNeckline · 12/08/2018 12:22

Otoh, I have a dear friend who has mental health issues and physical disabilities. She says "having and raising children is the one thing I'm good at" - she needs lots of time off paid work and never found a fulfilling job willing to give her enough of a chance and practical support to do well. However, she absolutely is able to do the emotional care for her kids, and buy in practical support as needed (she does have family help too).

Now obviously this raises issues around the way employers treat disabled workers, but for the life she is leading, right now? Well, her children have been the best idea ever.

PineapplePower · 12/08/2018 12:39

My children are more likely to pass on the condition my daughter has

This makes me wonder why you wouldn’t tell your son to not have children. He has SN and equal likelihood that a genetic condition will be passed on, yet it’s your daughter that you’d warn.

I’m sorry you are having such a rough time of it, but your children don’t have to have the same fate, if you prepare them.

I’m guessing you are raising your son with the expectation to be 50% involved in his partnerships? If not, please warn him off children too.

(This sounds colder than I expected, but it still stands. Our sons need to be raised to understand how to run a household, and if they seem incapable of it, perhaps we should persuade them to not have children).

SandyY2K · 12/08/2018 12:39

I agree with those saying it's about having a supportive hands on involved partner/husband.

I read lots of threads on here about women whose partners do so little and are so uninvolved with their children....and wonder why they put up with it.

CallMeOnMyCell · 12/08/2018 12:40

YABU, children are a blessing, one that so many are undeserving of.

choli · 12/08/2018 12:41

*Twitteratti

I think the more important and pertinent thing to tell your DD is "think very carefully about the person you choose to have your children with."*

Sadly, both on MN and IRL this seems to be an afterthought for most women.

GoldenWonderwall · 12/08/2018 12:55

Yanbu op.

I love my dc and would not change them for the world. I totally embrace dc and a dc life and spend the majority of time doing stiff with/ for them without resentment. However

  • I have several permanent health problems due to pregnancy and birth complications
  • I have been discriminated against and made redundant at work after having dc - no career at the moment to speak of
  • I have very little help so any social life is at the expense of any time with dh. We are going out as a couple once a year atm now we have two dc
  • the expense of doing anything as a family prohibits at lot of stuff and much I want to do is not possible with little dc.

I wouldn’t encourage my dc to have their own dc unless the world is a very different place in 30 years or so. I would support them whatever their choices were as best I could though.

Apileofballyhoo · 12/08/2018 12:58

I read lots of threads on here about women whose partners do so little and are so uninvolved with their children....and wonder why they put up with it.

Because they don't have financial security mainly I suppose.

SleightOfMind · 12/08/2018 12:59

My mother used to say this to me all the time.

Guess what our relationship is like now.

choli · 12/08/2018 13:02

*SleightOfMind

My mother used to say this to me all the time.

Guess what our relationship is like now.*

For her, probably fine. For you, probably still all about you.

Whatabanana · 12/08/2018 13:24

I remember my mother saying this to me at one point- and now I can see what she meant. It's one of those impossible conundrums though.

corythatwas · 12/08/2018 20:01

CallMeOnMyCell Sun 12-Aug-18 12:40:04
YABU, children are a blessing, one that so many are undeserving of.

What about when your own child doesn't think life is a blessing, though?

My dd has told me plainly that the main reason she is never going to have children is that she does not want them to have the childhood she had. She appreciates that we did everything we could, she is very grateful and loving and is now enjoying life, but the truth is that for many years it was a traumatic time of mental and physical suffering, nothing we could do could prevent that, and she knows there is a fair chance she will pass that on to a child of hers: the mental and physical condition that made her life unbearable to her is genetic.

Is it a blessing when your child tries to kill herself because she cannot face the thought of a life of suffering of which she already has full experience?

It's a tricky one.

Tir3dandhungry10 · 12/08/2018 21:25

100 years ago no contraception, not really any choice for women. Women had many births and high infant mortality. Some of us now live in a world with many more choices. In the news today a single female
paid and chosee to have a baby via IVF. With an increase in travel and global communication, I expect that the choices will continue to increase for males and females. I think that having children is much more an indivdual choice, compared to the past. (excluding people who have medical reasons or religious reasons)

SerenDippitty · 12/08/2018 21:30

I’ve read those studies too—but here’s the thing. Children are correlated with being less happy, but also with greater life satisfaction (the two are not the same). It also varies greatly with support/income/partnership strength and such, as you’d might expect. So it’s not as clear cut as your post suggests.

I think couples with children are probably more fulfilled as individuals but less happy as couples. Hence the higher break up rate. Swings and roundabouts really.

MsFrizzle · 12/08/2018 22:40

My mum agrees with me to never have kids, so...? Grin

TheSheepofWallSt · 12/08/2018 22:47

Thing is... you say something like that and you run the risk of -

A) making her doubt the value (to you) of her own existence (very sad)
B)her listening to you, never having children, and missing out on an experience that for her, might have been v different to yours, and her life’s joy and souls fulfilment
C) not listening to you, having kids, and finding out it’s not as you made out at all, and then living the rest of her life thinking she made you miserable

Don’t do it

MsFrizzle · 12/08/2018 22:49

you say something like that and you run the risk of -

Just curious, where's the option where she has kids and thinks OP is right and regrets it? It happens. Kids aren't for everybody and I think young women have the right to hear both sides - perhaps not in a backhanded insult from their own mothers, granted, but the point remains.

Johnnyfinland · 12/08/2018 22:50

MrsFrizzle same, as I said upthread. I don’t want kids, told my mum as much, and she said she wholeheartedly thought it was the right decision for me as I wouldn’t cope with it and it would be incredibly detrimental to my wellbeing. I never took any of that as a personal slight on her experience of parenting me, if anything I’m very happy she understands and supports my decision

TheSheepofWallSt · 12/08/2018 22:50

@frizzle

Yes it’s not an exhaustive list- that would obviously be an outcome in the OPs favour, so not to warn against...

TheSheepofWallSt · 12/08/2018 22:52

@johnny

That’s not the same as the OPs original post. Your mother was talking about your potential for mothering, in your own right.

FWIW, I was determined not to have kids- DS was unplanned- and I would have probably been very merry without children- and wholeheartedly cheerlead for the childless - good for them-I was so nearly of that tribe, and some days of course I think “what if”

What I don’t approve of, at all, is making your kids feel like mistakes.

Johnnyfinland · 12/08/2018 22:58

But there are ways and means of saying that parenting is thankless and hard work without saying your own kids are a mistake. Whenever I’ve talked to my mum about parenting she’s always been honest and said what a mammoth task it is, and the frustration and isolation and negative aspects it can bring. I don’t hold any of that against her, even if she told me she wouldn’t have kids if she had her time over I wouldn’t take it personally because I know she loves me as a person, she’d be talking about having kids as an abstract notion. She’s a person as well as a mother, she had a life and interests before me and again as I said upthread I wouldn’t expect to be the defining pinnacle in her life