To think the best advice I can give my daughter is don’t have any children?

[WaitingForSunday17]

Because it is completely soul destroying and the negatives massively outweigh any positives?
I have a son too. I don’t think it’s so bad for men. I wouldn’t be so sad for him if he ended up having children. But I think for women it ruins your life and the happiest people I know - and I think some study confirmed this - are those that are child free by choice? Completely different if you want them and can’t have them I realise.

I think the biggest issue here is that parenthood seems to detriment women much more than men. Of course in the short term there are biological reasons why this should be the case (pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding) but once a baby becomes a toddler then things should even out and fathers should be stepping up and doing their share.

I think as a society we are in a weird phase where girls are raised with the belief that they can and should achieve anything that a man can career wise, but when a woman becomes a mother the presumption is that they will be the primary parent and be responsible for the majority of child related activities otherwise you are an inferior mother. It's like women are trying to run two concurrent races whilst men can just focus on one (their careers).

I think we need a real shift in attitude around what is expected of fathers and how they need to be equal parents and not play supporting roles at home. Women also need to be released from the burden of feeling that they must be superwoman and have amazing careers whilst also being in charge of all child and domestic matters. I think expectations around women in the workplace have changed but expectations around mothers have remained pretty static and seemed based on having a SAHM. Society has changed and SAHMs are now in the minority so expectations of motherhood must also change.

Other than the obvious biological factor, the practical advice about having children should be no different for men than women

I understand that looking after children is not always a barrel of laughs, but can the people who don't enjoy it not do some brainwashing on yourselves and find the good in it?

If that is your reality, there must be ways you can make it interesting. I just don't see the point of going through life complaining and being miserable.

I’m glad I stayed childfree as the anecdotes about how “rewarding”kids are in this thread just sound so damn boring and annoying. So no doubt if I had had them I’d feel just like the OP.

Why does it annoy you that people find their own children rewarding? How can that possibly annoy you?
Great for you that you're pleased with your child free status but no need to shit on those who enjoy having their own children. It's really not unusual to enjoy being a parent

It's possible to say this to a dd without meaning or saying 'I regret having you'. It sounds harsh but I think we all know people that appear to have had children because it's the done thing or it just happened rather than it having been a long held desire.

I've always made it clear to my adult dd's that I love babies but there's no expectation for them to have children from me as a potential dgm.

You are projecting massively. We don’t all feel like this despite me being left disabled.

If you thought it were so universally bad, would you not say the same thing to your ds to avoid ruining another woman’s life?

Gosh, I remember crying my eyes out not long after dd was born because she was a girl and might want children and it would be painful and hard for her. But I blame the crazy hormones for that.

The piece of advice I would give my dd is to be bloody careful who you have children with because it's exhausting and hard and unless you have a partner who is in it with you 100%, you shouldn't do it.

I haven't 'given up' anything OP. You are being a bit melodramatic

Tbh for any daughter hearing this I think NC is a good option.

Bumpity - completely agree. I did not experience sexism until I became a mother. Attitudes need to change. But it starts with mothers themselves challenging the stereotypes both in and outside the home.

I have a mixture of friends some with children others who don't and have never wanted to have them.

It took me a long time to decide that I did and when the time was right. I had one friend quiz me at 26 when I stated that I wasn't ready and wanted my career to be in a certain place her response was "oh your going to be one of those mothers...." it not only shocked me but her judgemental attitude was the end of the friendship.

There can be a lot of pressure to have children especially after you have married at 32 I feel ready and am pregnant but that's our choice.

My parents never asked the age old question of when are you giving me a grandchild altho other members of my family did.

My mum has always given me the best advice in life "as long as your safe do what you want that makes you happy".

I was never pressed by my mum to go to uni or choose a certain career, get married etc when I discussed things with her it would be what will make you happy?

So as much as I feel empathy with you as your having a difficult time, my advice would be not to project that onto your own DD when she is older and give her the same opportunity to decide for herself what she wants with her life with the same simple but effective advice..... Do what makes you happy

I can count on one hand the number of times my primary school aged children have been looked after by someone who I didn’t pay for doing so. No family nearby, and yes, we have friends who could have done so but DH and I both work so when would we return the favour, and also most of our friends have family so don’t need a circle of friends for helping out with childcare in the same way.

It works because we earn decent money, and DH isn’t a complete arsehole. But a small deviation from ideal in either our work or DHs attitude and it just wouldn’t be possible,

My mum has said to me, on several occasions, that you can have a very happy, enriched life without having children. She emphasised that she had always wanted children and was fulfilled and a very happy mother, and it was not intended as an insult. I guess she just wanted me to know there were no demands or expectations from her side on me to take that path should I (together with my husband) decide it wasn't what we wanted. I took it in the spirit that she meant it and did not feel invalidated at all.

My MIL on the other hand.... The pressure was on from the moment my husband and I met and she ramped it up on every visit. It got quite uncomfortable in the end. When baby ds was a couple of weeks old, the pressure started for number two!

OP, I get what you mean. but that's so not the way to phrase it. Because if you say it like that she will definitely feel rejected, unwanted and like she is responsible for your unhappiness. That's not 'the best advice' you could give a child. That's brutal destruction of her self worth. I presume that;s not what you want for her. To feel unloved, unwanted, responsible for you etc.

Instead, without mentioning children, encourage her to do all the things you think she;d enjoy. Encourage her to be brave and confident, to work hard at what she loves, to explore the widest opportunities that are open to her.

And the very best way to do this is to allow yourself to do it too. Give yourself a chance to get unstuck. Even reading library books (if there are any libraries still open near you) and podcasts, TED talks etc can widen your perspective. Allow yourself the chance to train for a job you'd feel good about, and look for ways to do some of the things you've always dreamed of doing.

If you have kids later after your career has taken off it is much easier. I will advise my dd to have kids around the age of 32 - plus.
Leave a gap between kids so it is less strain. Minimum 2-3 years.
Only have a child with an extremely helpful man who doesn’t have ridiculous weekend hobbies that means he is ‘unavailable’.

If you have kids later after your career has taken off it is much easier. I will advise my dd to have kids around the age of 32 - plus

I don't know. This might be right for some but I had my first DD at 26 - a little earlier than I meant but that's they way it happened! I was only 1 year into my career so not too miserable about stepping out of it for a year (many of my friends having babies now are finding the concept of leaving their more senior careers for a while hard)

. I had DS 2 years later and went back to work when he was 9 months. My career has taken off now (age 32) and I'm doing really well. My kids are at school so don't have to spend most of a salary on childcare, and my career is on an upwards trajectory which won't be interrupted by any more babies or any more part time work. Can work fine to have them a bit earlier.

Quite frankly I'd rather never go out again then have to babysit other people's children in a babysitting circle.

That's your personal choice, then, not a reason to categorically tell other women that having time away from your children is impossible per se.

Besides, it doesn't have to be babysitting: any kind of favour will do. I am currently on holiday knowing that my pets are being looked after by a woman who chooses to do me this favour (which she doesn't mind) in return for years of baby-sitting (which I didn't mind). She would probably have done a lot to avoid baby-sitting my children, but then she didn't have to.

Yes, it took a bit of planning ahead and a level of general neighbourliness that would probably be extremely difficult if you are e.g. suffering from severe depression and/or social anxiety. But that doesn't mean it is out of the reach of every woman with children.

I have also had good results from sending my dh round to help people and then cashing in in the form of other services. Which brings me to the argument of pp, that for women with partners, sexism seems to be the major spanner in the wheel. That I absolutely do believe.

If you have a partner, there should be no reason, beyond the first few months of intense breastfeeding, why you can't have as many nights out as he does.

SN did make life more difficult, but because dh is not a selfish twat it made life more difficult for both of us, not just me. My future, my pension pot, my mental health and chance of recreation was always part of the planning.

Meh, my mum said loads of times she wished she never had children! None of us have taken it personally. Can't say it bothered me in the slightest as she was a great mum and she's the most amazing grandma. It's actions that count, not words I think.

She wasn't very keen on me having children either as she'd always been very keen on education and career - until I got to 30 with no sign of it, then it was all she went on about.

I think Lorelei hits the nail on the head. Take great care in choosing the father of your children. DH and I are a solid, mutually supportive unit and have parented together which makes life much easier.

My children have given me nothing but joy. Certainly they were a PITA getting ready for school in the morning and I'd sometimes end up shouting but that was the exception rather than the rule. I've found that taking children out makes everything better not worse. I've loved family days out, and holidays sharing new experiences.

I didn't miss my old life at all. No you can't take DC to a bar, nightclub, gym or spa. But I didn't care. I didn't want to go pubbing and clubbing. It was fun enough during one phase of my life but then I moved on to the next without looking back.

My DC are now late teens / adult so we can leave them and do what we want. But they're still welcome to come along whenever they want as they're interesting people and great company.

The thing is, I'm sure this has worked out as well as it has because DH is a star. DC haven't had to deal with twatish selfishness or the bitterness of divorce.

Only have a child with an extremely helpful man who doesn’t have ridiculous weekend hobbies that means he is ‘unavailable’.
@Biologifemini I think that's the best advice ever.
Pick your man.
Pick a man who does his share. Who doesn;t think you're lucky or sponging if he deigns to pay the bills while you child raise. Who isn;t the sort of entitled tosser who goes off with the lads all weekend every weekend. Who rates your career as much as his own. Who actively wants to engage with his kids. DH isn;t perfect but he has definitely done 50% of all childcare and house work since DC started school and I returned to work.

llamaspyjamas life isn’t over yet though - can you pay for a couple of sessions of nursery a week for ds to rest? My DH worked long hours and was not a helpful dad when they were small so I paid for childcare for a rest even though it was tricky to afford at times - because I had no other help. I think it did prevent deep PND in my case and I’m my DH didn’t give me any trouble about paying for it. Perhaps use the time to make a plan about your future job direction - it gets a bit easier to go back and even if you cleared a few £00s a month it gives you an interest away from the dc.

I do so agree about picking your man, but how do you know you’ve got one that is really going to adapt well to parenthood? I remember my DH shoitrd at me during one argument post dc ‘oh, did you really think it was going to be equal?’ because he earned more he assumed I would do more of the childcare - clearer expectations upfront and conversations are useful.

I don’t know. Was my life easier pre children. Absolutely. We’ve recently bought a house and renovating with two under 5s is hard work.

But, I love them, endlessly. They make me laugh, and feel lucky, and grateful every single day. They improve my life without an ounce of a doubt, regardless of the difficulties having children can provide.

I will say, I have an amazing support network. OH is a partner in every sense of the word, and I couldn’t imagine it any other way. My parents have my boys every Friday night, their request, but it benefits us obviously as it means my OH and I can go out once a week as a couple.

We had them young, University, and we did struggle to get our careers off, there were times when OH was writing his dissertation for his Masters and I was spell checking it, OH took a year off to be a sahd whilst I completed my teacher training year.

It’s not unreasonable not to want children, or even earn your daughter of the difficulties buy be gentle and careful. You don’t want her to feel you resent her xx

I don’t think we should be bringing it up children to think having children is the be all and end all of life and that it doesn ‘t matter how fulfilled they are in other ways, if they don’t have kids none of it will count for anything.

I think the more important and pertinent thing to tell your DD is "think very carefully about the person you choose to have your children with."

That would be a bit more realistic and constructive advice.

The people coming in to blast the OP appear to have missed the most important thing she said: My son has SN and my daughter has a long term health condition

I am guessing that this is all falls on the OP. I am not in the same situation at all, but have sufficient empathy to recognise that life would be bloody hard in those circumstances.

OP.

You can't tell your DD not to have kids or that it will ruin her life.

You can tell her it's a massive life changing decision and involves a lot of hard work and self sacrifice. And that most parents think it's worth it but a few don't. So she should be absolutely sure.

And yy to only having children with a man who will do his fair share of the hard work.