When a stranger asks to hold your baby...

[Katrina12]

Met a friend for coffee and cake this afternoon with my 8 month old... DS is very friendly and sociable and the lady serving our table took quite a shine to him. She kept 'popping back' to check we were ok and to smile and wave at DS. I am very sociable myself and as DS is such a smiler I often getting chatting to people out and about which I am more than happy to do... however, this lady wouldn't leave us alone and persisted to keep coming back for well over an hour. Not only was this annoying as I had not seen my friend in months (who had driven for over an hour to see us), but I was trying to feed DS and she kept distracted him which eventually led to a meltdown in the middle of the cafe. Finally as I was picking him up from his high chair to put him in his pram she came over and held her hands out and asked if she could hold him... I found this totally inappropriate. In my shock my mind went absolutely blank and I rather abruptly just blurted out 'no you cannot' - I am usually a very polite easy going person, but I was so shocked by her request and I guess instinct just kicked. AIBU to feel this was an inappropriate request of this woman? What would you have said/done?

Very different though to going out with a view of taking someone's baby. She was taken because they wanted the car. Nothing more.

Time and Pork - agreed, it was a bit rude and I should have handled it differently (ie found a kinder way to say no). But as you point out, this lady had repeatedly come back to the table - I honestly think she came to our table 10+ times in around an hour or so. If that's not excessive I don't know what is.

Anyhow, I've had time to think on it and I wouldn't ask to holder a strangers baby - feels over familiar to me. However, I would offer to help a stranger and if that meant holding their baby I'd happily oblige. The key thing for me is these things have to be offered and not assumed - and by putting someone on the spot with a direct request, I believe their is a level of assumption.

Child Abductionis the offense of wrongfully removing or wrongfully retaining, detaining or concealing achildorbaby.Abductionisdefinedas taking away a person by persuasion, by fraud, or by open force or violence. There are two types ofchild abduction: parentalchild abductionandabductionby a stranger.

GreatDuckCookery
I refer you to the above (definition of child abduction). As I said still abduction.

They wrongfully removed the child with open force.

I see you and bert had nothing to say about the second article I posted. I wonder why, perhaps because it shot down your theory bert

?

Also there are no rules as to how a child is abducted and there is a first time for everything. I am not saying that someone asking to hold your child is thinking of abducting them. You just never know what is going through people's heads.
I personally have never had a stranger ask to hold either of my children or any of the children I have cared for, if anyone did I would tell them no.

I was always happy to let anyone hold my babies and I haven't read anything here that changes that view

Letheldrizzle - anyone? Really? That's a broad statement. Would you oblige the women obviously high as a kite on goodness knows what legal highs that you see staggering around town in the middle of the day? Believe me in the town i come from I've been approached on several occasions by individuals clearly pickled and in all likelihood having taken drugs and in the middle of the day I might add, luckily it's never happened while I've been with DS. I'm fact the last time i had such an encounter I was with DP and a strange man tried to pull the hood off my coat, totally unprovoked, I hadn't even looked in his direction... I go back to my earlier point it's all about perceived risk and circumstance.

Ds1 (now 25) was 18 months old when we went to australia via thailand, the concierge in the hotel was fascinated by him, as were people on the streets, in markets etc even teenage boys smiled and stared and touched his head. He was blonde with blue eyes so quite unusual in comparison to Thai babies, also as a nation there just seemed to be so much love for children. anyway the few days we were there the concierge smiled and talked to him every time we went in or out, holding his arms out to him for a hug but DS was having none of it... finally on the last day Ds ran to him and was swept up in a delighted embrace, then he disappeared off behind the desk into the back office to show all the delighted staff there! we were 'bring him back' he did of course, and all was well, he genuinely was just so happy to have won him over that we couldn't be cross. similar was taking him out on the streets of Bangkok one evening and a group of ladies with money in their bra's running over the road to see him, one was so sad, told us she had a baby at home and missed him, they all wanted cuddles.

It really surprises me when people would quite willingly hand over the most precious thing in the world to them to "anyone". I doubt that highly to be honest.

Sorry I've been busy!

This thread has been mainly regarding not letting strangers touch, stroke or hold children. The thread moved on to children being kidnapped and then to prove just how many children were kidnapped the awful story of a child being taken because someone wanted the car she was in at the time was posted.

Which is very different to a child being taken because someone just wants to kidnap a child.

If I don't respond immediately I'm in the middle of decorating!

Yes you said. You didn't comment on the second horrendous story though.
The child was abducted as I already pointed out, it really doesn't matter what the purpose was, the child was abducted. I know you don't want to admit to being wrong. There was really no point in stopping your decorating to say the same thing you previously said upthread.

The link didn't work.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/6861713/louisana-baby-levi-cole-ellerbe-abducted-burned-death-train-tracks/amp

Strange, perhaps it did this time?

The story of Levi is horrific and very distressing and very different to what has been being discussed on this thread!

This woman wasn't making small talk with the mother or asking for a cuddle with her baby fgs.

No but I was asked to give examples of any children that had been abducted in the last 5 years. I'm not sure why it had to be specific to the UK, that confused me, are children who don't live in the UK not children? I don't think it was you was you who asked for those examples but I was asked for some. Yet I asked for statistics to back up that there is less that 1 child abducted in a 10 year period but got nothing back.

OP I apologise for derailing this thread. I just can not stand the narrow mindedness of some people that are not willing to accept other people's boundaries, or accept that sometimes they are wrong with their sweeping statements.

Time - absolutely no need to apologise. I get where you're coming from. The trouble with generalisations and sweeping statements is they feel like they lack respect towards the opposing view. I'm all for hearing other people's points of view and enjoy a good old discussion (isn't that why we're here?), but think there also comes a point where people should also accept that others will have different views/boundaries... we don't all have to agree!

Her coming to our table more than necessary would have annoyed me but I think I would have let her have a little hold.

We were in Spain last year and the manager of a restaurant sounds very similar to your waitress and wouldn’t leave us alone.
At the end of the meal she asked for a hold of my child which I was fine with but then walked off! She took them in to the kitchen to give them a lollipop. That made me feel anxious and pretty annoyed as we don’t give lollipops to the kids!

However the other day the lady waxing my eyebrows asked for a hold and then made my son laugh while I relaxed in the chair. She looked so happy making him laugh that holds in circumstances like that don’t bother me at all!

It’s nice when someone compliments you on your kids or if your kids make someone’s day a little bit brighter.... no?

It’s nice when someone compliments you on your kids or if your kids make someone’s day a little bit brighter.... no?

100% yes! It makes my day a little brighter too. I just don't feel the same about people asking to hold... but otherwise I absolutely love a compliment, and it truly warms my heart to see the joy he brings to others, especially the older generations.

Oh for heaven’s sake. What a fuss.

It seems obvious that you should ask (at least a "do you mind?) before attempting to touch or hold someone else's baby. And, you should ask in such a way that it is possible for the parent of the baby to decline without feeling uncomfortable.

It is one thing to offer to help someone, or even to strike up a conversation and then ask for a cuddle - but another to fuss over and bother someone (completely ignoring their discomfort) before assuming they will just let you take their baby.

I mean, I wouldn't pet somebody else's dog without asking them first (or at least going very slowly and observing their reaction), I wouldn't reach into someone else's bag to look at their phone just because I liked the look of it, i wouldn't sit down at a strangers table and attempt to join in with their conversation. I don't think you have to be paranoid or unfriendly to find behaviour like that rude / intrusive.

I think the waitress' behaviour was rude, if unintentional.

It's the same with touching the bump. I don't mind people touching the bump, if it makes them happy it makes me happy. But it's basic manners to ask before you touch someone. It's rude to either not ask, or to make it obvious that you expect or will only accept a yes.

The same goes for a lot of social situations, including those where one person may be "helping" another. It might be kind and appreciated to help a disabled person in a wheelchair for example. But if your start pushing them without asking first, they are going to get pissed off! If you are pushy with your "help" and won't take no for an answer, they will feel uncomfortable, belittled and aggrieved. People have a sense of basic agency and choice that should be respected by others. Even if they wouldn't normally mind a person doing something (like holding their baby, helping with their case, flicking a piece of food off their chin), if they sense someone else does not respect their agency and personal space then they will feel aggrieved and want to resist that person's advances.

I once had a lady who worked in a cafe offer to push my baby around the car park so I could have a couple of minutes peace and enjoy my coffee. I declined. I’m sure she was just trying to be nice but I didn’t know her.