To think Boris Johnson should be be thrown out of Tory party?

[crunchymint]

He is clearly racist. He should be thrown out of the Conservative party.

Agree again Backyard99

@Backyard99

And take it from me, being forced to cover myself because I am a woman, in 2018, is nothing short of barbaric.

Totally agree with you. Yet I wear niqab and many of my friends do, and not one of them is forced to. So why is it OK to force us to remove what we want to wear?

JamTea - I don't think anyone is saying you should be forced to remove your veil in personal time and spaces, or even when walking down a public street, but in the UK face veils, just as bikinis and the like, are not appropriate wear in schools, universities and public buildings. As for private employers and businesses, it should be up to them whether they wish to permit people to veil their face on their premises.

jamTea

Because your choice to wear a full face veil does not trump the right of other people to see your face.

It doesn’t equate with our core values of equality. Women choose to do many things that are unsafe, silly or against the law. Just because it’s your choice doesn’t make it right.

If a woman chooses to wear the veil, she shouldn't be ridiculed for that choice. It is not "silly, unsafe or against the law".

If a woman is forced to wear the veil against her wishes, she needs support not ridicule.

@Cuppaorwine, you say It doesn’t equate with our core values of equality I think you mean it doesn't equate with your core values, you don't speak for everyone and you certainly don't speak for me!

No the core values of a western democracy.

Where have I said women should be ridiculed?

If a woman chooses to wear the veil, she shouldn't be ridiculed for that choice. It is not "silly, unsafe or against the law".

It’s a symbol of medieval barbaric misogyny. Stop pretending otherwise. Stop enabling it with your virtue signaling. I reserve the right to find that a damn sight more than ridiculous. It’s dangerous and insidious. The ones who claim to be doing it through choice have Stockholm syndrome. Naturally they would deny that. The rest do it because their families expect it of them and it’s hard to stand up to generations of cultural expectation. Some are probably just attention-seekers.

No - cuppa is right. It doesn't equate with OUR core values of equality. The government have brought in regulations to prevent women from being obliged to wear outfits in the workplace that men would not be obliged to wear and I cannot see any other elected MPs objecting to that.

There is no way WE as a society would accept or tolerate men and boys wandering around showing nothing but their eyeballs in schools, universities, public office and buildings and we would not condemn private businesses and employers for making the choice not to allow it on their premises.

We are striving for equality - women and girls should not get a special pass on this just because they are female.

jamtea same way we don’t like people to wear balaclavas. Same way motorcyclist remove their helmets when they go into shops. And because, as women, we find it embarrassing for you to walk around acting as though women’s faces and bodies are shameful and need to be covered.

It’s absurd and you know it. You shouldn’t do it in the UK. Do it in Saudi, they love it there because they hate women and when people bring those strange customs to the UK, others reserve the right to be disgusted by it.

The ones who claim to be doing it through choice have Stockholm syndrome

I used to wonder about this. On balance I also used to accept "it's a choice" at face value, until told by a respected muslim community worker that many share with her that they have to say it, since anything else could get back to their menfolk and land them in a lot of trouble

Not being a mind reader I don't pretend to know where the truth lies, but it seems the truth isn't always as simple as it's painted

Assuming JamTea and her friends' "menfolk" are not monitoring this, then why she we not believe her that this is absolutely their choice?

Let JamTea cover her face as much as she wants, but only in environments and circumstances in which we would accept and tolerate men doing the same.

Yep afraid we need to start standing up for what is right rather than defending what is obviously wrong.

Society needs to send a strong message that mysogynistic practises are wrong and cannot he tolerated In our society for whatever spurious reason of ‘well its her choice’

If it is Stockholm syndrome and all veiled women in the UK are coerced into wearing it, allowing men in prominent positions to ridicule them is not going to help.

@Cuppaorwine - I was talking about what Boris said wrt ridicule, not you, apols if not clear.

@2up2manydown what do you mean by virtue signalling? I see that phrase bandied about but am not sure what it really means.

No worries obviousiy ridiculing women is not on but ridiculing the outfit I think Is fine. It is ridiculous.

This stockholm syndrome trope is incredibly patronizing towards adult women.

Assuming JamTea and her friends' "menfolk" are not monitoring this, then why she we not believe her that this is absolutely their choice?

It's impossible to know in individual cases, especially when we don't know the people concerned, which is why I always preferred to take what someone says on face value

But IME choices are rarely made in a vacuum, and it may be that some will still describe a "choice" as such, even if it's really made because a woman fears the alternative

Maybe "free choice" would have been a better phrase for me to use ...

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=FUVWVBrPsTM

This stockholm syndrome trope is incredibly patronizing towards adult women

Yes, it seems so doesn't it,; in fact I used to think so myself ... and yet even a quick google shows that much better minds than mine are discussing it quite openly

Puzzled - none of us have truly “free” will so I think that is besides the point.

It’s really very simple: we are a society that explicitly strives for equality of the sexes. Unless we are prepared to accept, in law, men’s right to cover their faces wherever they wish, we should not accept women doing it.

But my argument isn’t really about a woman choosing to wear it or not.

It’s simply that the face covering burka is so out of step with western democratic core values it should be banned in public places.

women have fought hard in this country for equal rights, dam hard, It matters not if the wearer is British born, foreign born, has free will or not it should be banned as in British just like lots of Muslims find western ways ‘unislamic’.

If you wish to dress yourself up head to toe then move to Iran. Or just wear it in private.

It’s an insult to all women for some women to dress this way. And it’s insulting to men too.

He's right to have said what he did. This has fuck all to do about defending Muslim women, it's a Tory political exercise.

Well we all know that Road he made things worse for poor Nazaneen.

Virtue signalling is conspicuously gobbing off and boring everyone about how liberal you are on every bloody issue and generally missing the point. Usually done on FB after terrorist attacks.

White female posters on here who talk about the rights of Muslim women to wear the burka while spectacularly ignoring the face that countries who enforce it like Iran are notorious mysogynistic and controlling of women.

They refuse to accept it’s clearly ridiculous because they are terrified of being seen as islamophobic. .

Usually joyless and utterly boring too. Or is that just my sister who is first class at virtue signalling
And ver ver woke