To think Boris Johnson should be be thrown out of Tory party?

[crunchymint]

He is clearly racist. He should be thrown out of the Conservative party.

No I though you lived in some place that doesn’t allow free speech or comedians so not Britain

Ah, ok right. That’s the best you’ve got.

Please do scroll back and read my posts properly.

Might be difficult to grasp - but I accept that we have freedoms of speech and quite right too. What I take issue with is that people take the piss and use freedom of speech as a cover for that to be ok.

It is rude and it is offensive to take the piss. How would you feel if someone took the piss out of your appearance?

I haven’t said it should be illegal. I have said that it’s not a good enough excuse to be rude and then deem it to be freedom of speech, when the intent is, quite clearly, to offend.

Being offensive isn’t a crime. But it is rude and unacceptable!

If people find it hard to make any sensible arguments against something without resorting to insults do nothing to enhance their argument.

That is my view.

The far right right are making political capital out of grooming gangs. They do not give a shit about the victims otherwise they would campaign against all types of grooming gangs

This is clearly true - so take back the conversation. There is clearly a problem with men of predominantly Pakistani heritage grooming predominantly white girls in the care system AND abusing girls at home who were massively overlooked when the reports came out saying that all the agencies were not just scared of looking racist in some cases but ALSO THOUGHT THE GIRLS WERE WHITE TRASH TOO. The Asian girls that the report said were too scared to come forward are always overlooked in this.

By refusing to engage in the conversation because it's only focused on men of a particular background and doesn't also focus on white male grooming gangs, who are the ones who continue to be left to be abused in Rotherham, Oxford etc. etc.? The Asian girls at home who Tommy Robinson and his ilk could not give a fuck about.

I agree mirialis, there is a problem and it’s a bigger problem than just “Muslim” grooming. By giving it such a label, it becomes a racist issue only when actually it’s a bigger issue than that. For example, why is this happening in deprived areas? Are there other factors at play?

By refusing to engage in the conversation because it's only focused on men of a particular background and doesn't also focus on white male grooming gangs, who are the ones who continue to be left to be abused in Rotherham, Oxford etc. etc.? The Asian girls at home

I think that's an important point, mirialis - though with the abuse investigations growing all the time I'm not convinced they're the only ones

Worse still, it seems the appalling Rotherham council are to be given back control of their own affairs in this area: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-44930112

Believeitornot

I wasn’t insulting you what’s insulting by asking you if you are not British

You can’t hsve it both ways you said freedom of speech doesn’t include taking the piss out of religion

It does and it should regardless if either you or I are offended or feel insulted.

And I simply cannot get my head around your comments about comedies not making jokes out of religions any more. They do. All the time.

I went to a Catholic boarding school, we called the nuns penguins. Maybe a bit childish but not a crime.

There was an entire musical taking the piss out of the Mormons not that long ago.

Pretty offensive to them but they responded with impressive dignity.

The girls were targeted by predominantly Pakistani men because they view women and girls as objects to use. The rape/murder of girls and women stats in Pakistan are truly shocking.

They picked on white working class vulnerable girls as they are easy targets. The police unbelievable called them ‘child prostitutes’ they didn’t matter.

Social workers were ignored by raising the issue for fear of being called islamophobic. This is why these men got away with their crimes for so long.

Clearly there are paedophiles of all colours all religions and in every culture but in the Pakistani male culture, especially the working clsss and beneath l, women are second class citizens.

That is of course not to ignore the thousands of paedophilic priests and vicars, etc etc and that is just as important a debate to have

how would you feel if someone took the piss out of your apperance

They have, I laughed and gave it back.

If s person punched me in the face or called me a white bitch, both of those have also happened to me because I was dating a black guy, that’s entirely different.

Minority groups are always framed by their religion/race.

The talk is of Muslim grooming gangs but the likes of Saville and many other white Christian sex offenders are never framed by their skin colour or religion.

The 1996 Manchester bombing was never framed as an attack by white christians (of course the Irish community in the UK - a minority suffered abuse during the 70's/80's). The 2017 Manchester Arena was all about religion in its framing.

The murder of Jo Cox was not framed as the work of a white Christian. Little outrage about his far right views. The murder of a Lee Rigby all about religion.

You see this othering tactic in the US. When a white lone gun man carries out an attack he is a "loner" "disturbed" rarely a terrorist.

Na Ghosto

Many catholic priests and C of E vicars, jo Cox was killed by a terrorist whose line ‘Britsin First’ was widely reported by all the press.

During the terror years the bombs were carried out by the IRA or the UDA both catholic and Protestant terror groups.

Isis terrorists cite their religion as their reason to kill.

Muslim grooming gangs rampaged because of fears of accusations of islamophobia.

You are othering and indulge in whataboutary every time You fsce facts you don’t like.

They weren’t framed as Christians in the aftermath of bombings. Their Irish identity was which led to racism against that community. History repeating.

I don’t think you remember the 70s do you?

I was in brum during the pub bombings and at my girls school there were dozens of catholic girls. None were targeted or picked on. Everyone was just shocked.

They were labelled as catholic or Protestant terrorists as you may know that’s Christians.

But of course the facts again don’t suit you.

Their Irish identity was which led to racism against that community
If you say so.

Ghost o. Please stick to your point and stop digressing. It doesn't help. The IRA were political terrorists. Religion of secondary importance. They were not blowing up brits for not being catholic.

Yeah it’s almost as if the “no dogs, no blacks, no Irish” signs were a figment of my imagination

I think the double standards applied here are very important.

Are you in all seriousness saying there was "Little outrage about his far right views" with regard to Jo Cox's murderer?!

Given the far right is now flourishing it is debatable. Politicians should be standing up against this not “fanning the flames” as another poster put it.

jo Cox was killed by a terrorist whose line ‘Britsin First’ was widely reported by all the press.

The Daily Mail also called him a 'fragile loner with mental health issues', diddums.

believe

It's common knowledge the reports from grooming gangs.

There is a massive widespread problem with Asian grooming gangs all over the UK. There is a problem with Catholic priests and monks etc.

There are issues with sex trafficking slave girls from Romania and Lithuania and Albania.

There are endless issues within communities and cultures. We should never be afraid to tackle any of them. But... When someone says....wow did you see the horrific news about ample forth today... I don't see anyone immediately jumping in frothing at the mouth screeching... But what about Savile what about Asian grooming gangs.

We can just talk about Catholic issues!!

It does and it should regardless if either you or I are offended or feel insulted

Freedom of speech does not mean insulting people. Insulting people is insulting people, end of story. No need to use the badge “freedom of speech” which is an important right. An insult is an insult.

If s person punched me in the face or called me a white bitch, both of those have also happened to me because I was dating a black guy, that’s entirely different

Why is being called a “white bitch” not an insult and why is that different? It’s an insult, it’s offensive.

Saying that someone wearing a burqa looks like a bank robber is denigrating their character. It’s offensive and insulting.

And I simply cannot get my head around your comments about comedies not making jokes out of religions any more. They do. All the time

I don’t follow racist comedians who take the piss out of minorities. It’s one thing for a comedian to take the piss out of their own culture. It is quite another for someone to take the piss out of a minority. You’re missing that distinction - a point I have made earlier.

As for asking why I’m british - yes I’m offended because you seem to think how can I possibly be because my views and experience differ to yours. That’s what I take offence to.

I was born in England, grew up here and have never lived anywhere else. Happy?

The widest possible extension of freedom of speech HAS to include insulting people. It has to include a lot of things that are not polite or pleasant. Or it's not much of a freedom.

I don't see anyone immediately jumping in frothing at the mouth screeching... But what about Savile what about Asian grooming gangs. We can just talk about Catholic issues!!

And yet, I did see someone jumping in frothing at the mouth and screeching.

I see that thread's now been deleted.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3331126-Monks-abusing-our-children
Thread deleted
Message from MNHQ: we've had a number of reports about this thread and we think it's best if we take it down due to the inflammatory statement in the opening post.

OP, you're welcome to start another thread to discuss this issue but please avoid making sweeping generalisations about Catholicism.

@believeitornot

It was this comment that makes you wonder if you are from the UK

When was the last time you heard a comedian take the mick out of a particular religion? I’ve not heard any recently - and there’s a reason for it.

Or you live a very sheltered life