Who was being UR re camping behaviour?

[ijustneedagoodnightssleep]

Currently camping in France. One of the things I love about French campsites is that they are usually lovely and quiet after 11pm.

A couple of nights ago, I got back to my pitch with DH and DD (6) at about 11.30, after some stargazing, then teeth cleaned etc. As we approached it, new people were arriving at the pitch next door. I admit my heart sank, as it meant some noise for a while as they got themselves to a point where they could go to bed (they had a large caravan, we're in a tent).
It was obvious that we were heading to bed to sleep.

They sent their three kids to play in the playground directly across from our pitches (no instructions to play quietly and their smallest had a very loud voice), then proceeded to bang, beep, rustle and talk for well over an hour)

At 12am, my DD (not encouraged by me!) shouted "shut up!"

She couldn't get to sleep and kept complaining to me about the noise. At 12.45am, after my DD had complained to me again, and they started rustling (what turned out to be a large tent) literally right outside the back of my tent, I said loudly "are you going to be much longer as it's nearly 1am and you've been doing this for long time now". They went quiet after that, thank god!

The next day, the woman approached DH, said sorry they'ed been loud, had been delayed etc BUT we needed to tell DD of for being rude, as apparently she'd approached them earlier and told them off for being noisy!!!!

When we asked DD what happened, she said that she'd gone up to the dad in the playground and said "you were very noisy last night", he'd replied "that was a very grown up thing to say".

So, should we have told DD off? Should I be more understanding? Or should they at least have had the courtesy to approach us when they got here to apologise about the inevitable noise, and try and keep it to a minimum?

AlexaAmbidextra, no sympathy. Smoking is disgusting and inherently selfish. You probably had no idea (or didn't care) just how far the noxious clouds waft.

OP, YWNBU. The number of posters on here who still seem to expect children to tiptoe round/venerate adults just because they are adults astonishes me. I would have admonished her for the 'shut up' because we don't speak to anyone like that. But I certainly wouldn't have done the family's bidding when they expected me to cut my daughter down to size for daring to make a not-very-polite observation to an adult. Someone upthread (I think) called it 'guilt-throwing' and they were right - trying to detract and distract from their own less-than-ideal behaviour by getting puffed up and self-important about a mere child daring to 'call them out' on it. I like trancepants' suggestion upthread and would probably have spoken to my dd in a similar way, but I certainly wouldn't have told her offat an adult's demand for failing to provide due reverence to them.

If the little girl and her parents were so bothered by smoke then approaching the pp who was smoking in order to lecture her seems an odd choice.
I think I’d have just told her to run along back to Mummy away from the nasty smoke then.

Why can't the dd state a fact. I don't think it's an adult thing to say. More childlike really as it was factual and she didn't get the social norm of never approaching somone. I wouldn't be telling the dd off id have said to the parents but you were and she couldn't sleep because of it. In fact they were rude to not get the basics done so they could sleep and sort it out in the morning so not to disturb others.

I probably would have said to them that perhaps she wouldn’t have been so blunt/rude if she’d have gotten some sleep rather than being kept awake until 1am. 6 years olds say things how they see them and he’s we do try and encourage them not to voice their every thought do that they don’t say things like “look mum that fat man has balloons” which he was an extremely large man selling balloons so he wasn’t being rude on purpose but obviously we just try to encourage them not to voice that to the world because it sounds rude. I wouldn’t make your DD apologise I would just tell them that maybe they should have told their own children not to be screaming at night time when people were trying to sleep so everyone has clearly gotten off on a bad foot and maybe you can all just put it behind them now

jessebuni Exactly it's normal for kids to say things as they see them. I never told off my very young kids for making blunt statements, although I would explain why we don't say XYZ to people as it might hurt their feelings or make them angry.

Your daughter should not apologise, I’d be proud if I were u

I think Alexa puts her finger exactly on the problem with kids "telling it like it is". They won't always get an age-considerate response if they are blunt with people. They may get an adult response, and sometimes that isn´t going to be kind or nice. Maybe the OP´s daughter was right in her comment, but what if they had turned around and told her to fuck off and mind her own business? She was lucky that the adults in this situation took her age into consideration. Not everyone would have.

she's clearly taking your lead. If for example you were saying "oh lovely, new neighbors, poor them having to set up at this time of night, they must be exhausted" I doubt she'd have done any of it.

This ^

No, I think your DD was quite rude. She's 6, she really needs to wind it in a bit. She shouted 'shut up' just to start with.

ElderlyLady. As I wasn’t looking for your sympathy I give not one shit that you aren’t giving it. Strange though, as another poster says, that if my cigarette smoke was so abhorrent from a distance of 20 yards - there was no wind btw hence me needing a cold drink on a hot day - said child should both wish to and be allowed to put herself within range of it.

This is an interesting angle. Should we teach our daughters not to speak their minds because of the risk of violence? I think that is what some pps are saying.

Your daughter was merely being straightforward which children are at that age.

Just forget about it now.

The lot of you sound rude . Glad I'm not staying at your campsite - noise at midnight , 6 year old shouting at newcomers to shut up and then having words with them the next day . Shut up is rude , whether it comes from a 6 year old or a 60 year old , it's plain bad manners .

Alexa, you do seem rather... abrasive, and as if you resort to aggression easily (on this thread as to the little girl - not sure why you were so rattled by her childlike (and not unreasonable) comment that you felt the need to respond thus).

FWIW, I would be steering my dc right away from your noxious cloud :)

@Afigtree, Our daughters (and sons) should be taught how to be assertive and how best to interact with others to get their points across in the most effective way possible. Shouting “shut up” at people and then approaching an adult to tell them they were noisy is neither assertive or effective; it’s aggressive and goady. Here the OP should take the lead and explain why the neighbours may have been noisy (long journey, getting sorted etc etc) and that she will discuss with them in the morning.

Our daughters (and sons) should be taught how to be assertive and how best to interact with others to get their points across in the most effective way possible. Shouting “shut up” at people and then approaching an adult to tell them they were noisy is neither assertive or effective; it’s aggressive and goady

Yep, that about sums it up.

DS2 is nearly 7 and would definitely have said the same. I'd have told him it was rude, but he wouldn't have known.

Why wouldn't he have known that shouting shut up was rude?

I think that's a fine thing for. Six year old to say unprompted. Children are honest, I think he could learn a lot from that & apologise & explain to her.

I know a child like this. She is always ‘stating facts’ and will approach parents in the playground after school to tell them she thinks they ought to know their dc was unkind to her that day. Or ‘your house is rather messy’ and so on. All true no doubt, but she isn’t gifted with making friends. Sad as it isn’t her fault, she’s still little and her parents could stop being so proud she’s assertive and help her understand why people find her rude and don’t want to invite her round. None of it is necessary, just as it wasn’t necessary to approach the man the next day to carry on the bad feeling. No point in assertiveness for the sake of it.

But you/your dd should apologise for having shouted 'shut up'

Why wouldn't he have known that shouting shut up was rude?

I think we all know that shouting that is rude but at 1am when you're knackered and inconsiderate people are making a racket your social graces tend to fly out of the window.

Your Daughter was rude. Shouting 'shut up' is not ok. Being so outspoken, and telling a grown up that they were being noisy is not ok. You are enabling and consequently encouraging her bad behaviour. You seem to think she's in the right?? She's a child, and shouldn't speak to adults this way. Why can't you see that op?

I mean saying, "You were very noisy last night." A 6 or 7 year old being kept awake at midnight is probably overtired and grumpy, so would I be at that time, DS2 would almost certainly have shouted "shut up!" because he would have wanted them to. He was kept awake until 11 by 3 loud parties the other week, he was crying he was so tired. He did ask me several times why they couldn't just shut up.

I think your daughter is awesome.
They are the ones being rude.