Who was being UR re camping behaviour?

[ijustneedagoodnightssleep]

Currently camping in France. One of the things I love about French campsites is that they are usually lovely and quiet after 11pm.

A couple of nights ago, I got back to my pitch with DH and DD (6) at about 11.30, after some stargazing, then teeth cleaned etc. As we approached it, new people were arriving at the pitch next door. I admit my heart sank, as it meant some noise for a while as they got themselves to a point where they could go to bed (they had a large caravan, we're in a tent).
It was obvious that we were heading to bed to sleep.

They sent their three kids to play in the playground directly across from our pitches (no instructions to play quietly and their smallest had a very loud voice), then proceeded to bang, beep, rustle and talk for well over an hour)

At 12am, my DD (not encouraged by me!) shouted "shut up!"

She couldn't get to sleep and kept complaining to me about the noise. At 12.45am, after my DD had complained to me again, and they started rustling (what turned out to be a large tent) literally right outside the back of my tent, I said loudly "are you going to be much longer as it's nearly 1am and you've been doing this for long time now". They went quiet after that, thank god!

The next day, the woman approached DH, said sorry they'ed been loud, had been delayed etc BUT we needed to tell DD of for being rude, as apparently she'd approached them earlier and told them off for being noisy!!!!

When we asked DD what happened, she said that she'd gone up to the dad in the playground and said "you were very noisy last night", he'd replied "that was a very grown up thing to say".

So, should we have told DD off? Should I be more understanding? Or should they at least have had the courtesy to approach us when they got here to apologise about the inevitable noise, and try and keep it to a minimum?

Meh.

The new arrivals were rude by setting up camp with the same level of noise as it takes at 3pm instead of adjusting to their lateness. The kids did not need to go out and play and kitchens etc do not need to be set up at midnight.

The 6 year old needs a little more education in social graces but only responded in kind to the adults who were late.

Parents and I did a lot of camping in France growing up. People choose to be noisy or quiet when arriving late. These people chose noisy. So cant complain.

Only on MN does a story about a tent turn into a fat-bashing conversation...

Re the plane - but the person may be bothered due to the lack of space whether you go out of your way or not, so they would still just be stating a fact.

If you are fat enough you encroach in to someone's space the airlines can and will get you to move or buy another seat. Despite being fat I am far more likely to have some man's arm and elbows in my seat.

They were setting up a tent and caravan after presumably being delayed. How quiet can they be?

Really quiet.

You don't talk.

You don't send the children to play.

You just set up the basic tent and go to bed. You don't faff about with the full set up.

The next morning in the light you finish the full camp set up.

Should take 30 mins max to erect the tent and get the beds sorted!

You shouldn't be encouraging a 6 year old to shout shut up, I can guarantee she's annoyed people by making noise before I'm sure you'd have something to say if anyone dared say that to her. It was rude and obnoxious

I don’t camp or caravan but common sense says if you arrive somewhere at that time of night and when it’s clearly obvious that other people are all in their tents / campers so presumably sleeping that you get ready to settle as quickly and quietly as possible ie make do with the caravan for the night and put the tent up today .

I think the family were BU to make that much noise at that time of night and I probably would have said something at the time.
I think your DD was being rude and she sounds very stroppy, inappropriate and out of order telling the other adult off.
Maybe say to her to leave it to the adults to sort out.

It's not rude, it's potentially dangerous. "Stranger danger" etc. We don't warn children off strangers so they aren't offending adults by speaking to them, we do it for the child's safety

I didn't think anyone still taught stranger danger any more - it is vitally important that children are able to interact appropriately with strangers and understand when to ask a stranger for help (or offer help to someone) and when they need to be concerned.

Why shouldn't a six year old tell someone they were making a lot of noise? At what age should she be able to express herself openly? I don't get it. No wonder kids / people get bullied in life. My dd openly puts her hands over her mouth and makes a big fuss whenever she goes past someone smoking. She's every right IMO.

You shouldn't be encouraging a 6 year old to shout shut up, I can guarantee she's annoyed people by making noise before I'm sure you'd have something to say if anyone dared say that to her

This is a valid point, if someone had yelled shut up to your daughter,even one of the kids, as you were trying to set up. Would you have felt it was rude?

They probably sent the kids off to okay to get them out the way so they could set up faster and were all probably exhausted. They should have told them to play quietly of course, but two wrongs never make a right.

I agree that yelling shut up is rude, but it was also understandable under the circumstances. In terms of your daughter telling the dad they were noisy, I wouldn't tell my child off for simply being honest. I would suggest that you explain to her that people don't like it when people are blunt and that it may be better to word things differently in future, or, as she is so young, she should let you and her dad handle matters, but no, I wouldn't tell her off for making a truthful statement.

My daughter had to have a day patient procedure under a light general anaesthetic once. We had to wait for hours before it was her turn, so, when a nurse asked if she was okay, my daughter answered truthfully that she was really bored. If the nurse had asked me, I would probably have smiled at her and said I was fine thanks, but you know what, it was really fucking boring stuck in a hospital waiting room for hours, my daughter simply stated a fact. I would have given the nurse a pleasant lie in response, but my daughter gave her an unpleasant truth. As we left the ward later in the day, the nurse said I should give my daughter a row for being rude. It still annoys me that she said that to me, especially given that my daughter was vomiting outside the hospital within minutes of leaving, as in we both had other concerns that day. The nurse asked a question and got an honest answer and I didn't feel I could tell my daughter off for that. I do remind and tell my daughter to watch her manners at times, but should I punish her for simply being honest, especially to a fairly inconsequential question?

No you definitely shouldn’t have to tell your daughter off for that and the nurse was crazy. Your daughter answered a question.

This is totally different as the child found the adult and initiated the telling off.

They were out of order. Arriving at that time I would tell my chn straight to be bed and keep quiet. Everything else can wait until the morning.Your DD was a bit direct and incredibly forward to speak to an adult stranger that way. Does she lack social boundaries normally?

We have a child that does things like that in my class but she has Aspergers and that can be part of the condition.

My dd openly puts her hands over her mouth and makes a big fuss whenever she goes past someone smoking

shudders

(Also, a fantastic way of ensuring she gives it a go herself as a teenager, to find out what all the fuss is about - good work!)

DD sounds very spirited for a 6 year old.

Shouting shut up was rude. They had to get sorted and hadn't had very long to do so. They were your new neighbours so a bit of tolerance and understanding goes a long way. And tell my kids off for doing that in that situation.

What she said to the Dad was not rude. It is assertive/matter of fact but children often say things without realising the impact. You know the sort of thing 'my mum says you're a busy body'....

Hopefully your DD will develop a bit of awareness of her impact on other people which will help her in the long run. Being a bit more nuanced will help.

But maybe we should bear in mind that children being excessively respectful to elders as directed by their parents may find it harder to speak up against bad or inappropriate behaviour. Let's not go backwards on that one.

I don’t think it’s rude for any one at any age, she wasn’t mean or nasty. They are obviously just embarrassed that they’ve been told off by a child.

Would your daughter like another holiday here with me? I'd love her to inform the noisy family near me that they're being a pain in the arse with their constant shouting day after day.
(And if there are any Mumsnetters with daughters called Phoebe and Freya & a son who constantly bellows 'muuuuummmmmm' - I'm officially sick of your whole family being unable to communicate in normal tones, parents included!!)

They arrived late, you do not know if they had been delayed, were stressed and tired. Yes, it was thoughtless to send their children over to play so late near you. However your child needs to understand that she is not to speak to grown up's like that, it is not her place. Grown ups sort out the problems if there are any.

It's horrendous when camping next to people who are noisy in the night. One time my DH had to go with a flash light and talk to the people in the next tent where the man was trying to convince the woman he was with to have sex and she didn't want to. Camping can be horrendous! Great tip though: We put our kids to bed at 9 and they are blissfully asleep by the time all the crap starts.

I wouldn't be mad at my 6 year old, though. She may need teaching how and when to deal with frustrating situations but all kids do. Just be glad she didn't hear anything worse!

They are obviously just embarrassed that they’ve been told off by a child.

If you think that might be embarrassing, then that is why it is rude. it is bad mannered to make others feel uncomfortable, let alone a child to an adult. she was rude shouting shut up too. They were inconsiderate that when they arrived late they should have crept about but in tents you can hear absolutely everything. They apologised the next morning.

I didn't think anyone still taught stranger danger any more - it is vitally important that children are able to interact appropriately with strangers and understand when to ask a stranger for help (or offer help to someone) and when they need to be concerned

It is perfectly possible to do both. Do you otherwise struggle with parenting?