To tell my husband never to bring up how much money I make ever again?

[dellacucina]

Between us, my husband and I earn a very good living. I make about £60k before tax and I have a very flexible job. He makes over £100k.

My husband seems to believe that I have a duty to make as much money as possible and he loves to throw this in my face when it suits him - he basically suggests he has more say over our family financial decisions than I do because he makes more.

This morning we had a terrible row about childcare. We currently only do a 4 day nursery week and the nursery is very annoying to get to, plus this creates stress because I work a 5 day week and we fill the gap with help from his elderly mother (who tires easily and probably allows us to take advantage of her a bit) and an au pair (though we don't currently have one). I would prefer to move to a closer nursery for 5 days a week. This would cost about £400 more net per month. This would basically have no bearing on our quality of life.

I have forbidden him from bringing up my salary, which he considers to be absolutely paltry. But he again brought this up today - not in the context of 'well, we need to consider our finances in the round', but 'if you're going to demand such unreasonable childcare arrangements, then YOU need to make more money!'

Am I being unreasonable about childcare?

Is it unreasonable to expect to be treated as an equal partner even though I make less money? Even with our extra help, I am the main caregiver for our DD (whom i adore - so I don't want a higher paid stressful job), so i offer noneconomic value to the relationship.

Btw I am completely aware that we are very fortunate and I would never say otherwise! I just find it frustrating to live with someone who seems to believe we are in the poorhouse and can't spend some extra money to improve our lives

You are stuck with the wazzock because of your visa.
But you can start lining your ducks up for when you can take back control
Do you have independent ISA savings - tax sensible and useful ?
Do you have independent pension savings ? - tax sensible and useful
Will your employer be willing to help you through the ILR process?

Could you tread water on the marriage for a while and start the British naturalisation process? Apols if this has already been dealt with downthread. Otherwise you're into a divorce and swift UK exit, which is what will happen. I know 2 women - one corporate high earner and one small business owner - both South Americans to whom this has happened, both have kids born in uK.

Tinkobell: there is no way I am going to consider leaving DH before I have a secure position in this country (if only because I do want to try to make things work between us)

That's basically my worst nightmare - not having the right to live in the same country as my daughter

And he knows it, hence why he is being such a shit to you.

Its a shame that the UK has such a racist xenophobe for a prime minister
immigrants who pay tax on a £60k salary are valuable assets to the country

Clutching at straws maybe but, have you tried raising a subject without expecting a result immediately and making a time to talk about it later, and a decision after that, might stop him digging heels in, he seems v anxious and controlling. Or try it your way for a certain time and review after a week, several weeks, this gives him time to try it without feeling there is no return. About nursery I would just organise it, that comes under your department.

Your husband sounds as if he is really mean and a skinflint. Paying for used appliances and not having a decent holiday when you are such high earners and can easily afford it seems very sad. Many people would love to be in your position and have a good income and spare money every month.

Is the reason you want to move to a 5 day nursery week for your DDs sake, yours or your MILs? If your MIL is struggling to care for your DD does your DH not care about that? Would it mean a shorter day for your DD because of travel distance to the new nursery? Point out the selfishness of him ignoring the advantages to you, your DD and his DM to move to a 5 day nursery week. What does your MIL say about not having her on the one day she has her? We find our DGDs tiring (almost 3 and 4 months) but still like having them one day a week when my DD and her husband are working although my DD just works part time so only 7 hours a day.

Cornishclio: I wanted to switch the nursery because it was far more convenient to get to and then we learned that we would have to move to. 5 day week there. I thought this seemed fine but DH talked me out of it based on cost.

The issue was reignited when he recently told me after the fact that I had abused his mother's generosity by going out with my mother (who had traveled a long way to see me) for lunch and shopping while she was there. (I then offered to take a holiday day to relieve her for a week because I was quite upset about th whole thing). This was like 2 weeks ago.

It came up again last week as outlined in the OP.

Basically the current arrangement just causes a lot of problems. I had envisaged that she could be picked up early as desired on Fridays so she can spend time with MIL etc,

None of it makes any sense because the essential aim is to put you in the wrong and control the finances.

If he doesn't want to abuse his mothers generosity, you'd think he'd want to put DD in nursery. But money comes first clearly and wrong-footing you.

And yes, i also don't think it is brilliant for DD to have to sit in a stroller for hours extra each week breathing in the nasty air in a busy interchange when she could just go basically next door.

I really wish I had insisted at the time. They have undoubtedly filled all the spaces now.

I do feel like I am going a bit mad and I wonder if maybe I am doing something wrong here

I used to feel like this until I did the Freedom Programme. They will never tell you to leave him, or judge you, but they will help you to understand the bigger picture of what he's doing here and how appalling it is. Future wise they will teach you what a healthy relationship looks like (nothing like this).

I don't know if you realise you're now at 23 pages of you going round in circles on the same points desperately trying to rationalise and normalise his behaviour - and when you can't do that you start turning the blame on yourself instead. Anything to avoid facing how bad this really is, and what that means.

It's understandable, as is the difficulty you're having in accepting he is abusive and he is abusing you. It took me a long time too. It takes most of us a long time.

So you've got a year until you can apply for ILR. Maybe a further 6 months for that to come through. Use that time to prepare yourself. I think you must know deep down how this has to end (for your daughter's future as much as your own), but it's ok if you're not ready for that to be real yet. Preparing doesn't mean you have to act, it means you have the option to act. Options are good to have.

It took me a year from my watershed moment of "oh my god this isn't normal, is it? This is really bad", through hearing him described as abusive for the first time, through telling people all his good qualities and how it was my fault really for pushing back, through doing the Freedom Programme, through the heartbreak of accepting I'd just been a pawn to him all along, through making my plans to leave, through terror at the idea of leaving, through wobbling and feeling guilty and making excuses for him... to finally accepting the only way my life would change was to leave, and leaving.

So please believe me when I say I know it's not easy, and it is distressing, and I'm not judging you for a second. I know it isn't as easy as somebody saying "just leave" and up and off you go. I had people tell me that when I was preparing to leave and it upset me so much I still used to angrily tell them no! Even though I was trying to.

I understand why you want to try and make things work. I wasted years and years of my life on the same futile quest. It's impossible to fix things with someone who is even the slightest bit abusive (controlling). They want your obedience, and to keep you feeling small - they don't want your partnership.

Abuse is about power and control, not violence or monsters. All abusers have redeeming features - otherwise nobody would ever get close enough to them to be abused. And nobody would stay.

Please reconsider joint counselling. He's already demonstrated that he will use it to further abuse you, his behaviour has been textbook. Joint counselling should never happen where abuse (controlling behaviour) has taken place. Solo counselling would be so much better for you.

You cannot reason with an abuser. They behave like this because this is how they want things to be - you under their control. He doesn't see the world the way you do.

The other reason I wanted to recommend the Freedom Programme to you is because it helped me find ways to cope in the interim before I was sure I wanted to leave and before I was able to. It was 2 hours a week where I knew nobody would shout at me, undermine me, call me stupid, or make me feel crazy (or call me crazy). It's information based, and it was so vital for my sanity to be able to quietly ask questions about things happening at home so I could get an expert opinion on whether I was crazy or whether it was as bad as I suspected.

Each week you do a different topic, so when they were perhaps explaining a few different examples of behaviour I used to sometimes pipe up with "like if he did xyz?", got my answer and then we just pretended it was hypothetical because I wasn't ready for it not to be. They'll never push you to share things or talk about things. You don't have to stand up in front of everyone and spill your whole life story. It took me weeks to speak. But it changed my life for the better.

Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Take charge of your life again. Stop spinning round in circles.

P.s. Yes, leaving can be a short period of rubbishness while you deal with fallout - but my god, that adjustment period is a walk in the park on a beautiful summer's evening compared to spending the rest of your life the way it is now.

OP, listen to Anouk and think about what she's said. She's a very wise woman.

@Bluelady
Anouk can say what she likes but the OP is utterly trapped by her visa situation for now
and risks immediate deportation under La May's hostile environment if the marriage goes tits up.

della can do NOTHING about her marriage just yet
but she can start to sew her parachute

Hugs @della, it's fucking awful situation that you and your DD are in. 💐Posters are desperately trying to optioneer for you and think of every viable angle. Look, I don't disagree with the view that his behaviour amounts coercive abuse. But I'd still push for joint counselling. If he refuses that this would absolutely confirm to me that he's being abusive and he KNOWS it because he's worried about any 3rd party scrutiny. See where is gets you.....
If you did have to exit the UK, could you take DD with you? Tell us about your life back home....would you have any family support, hope of a job etc. You do come across as a very able person.

tinkobell
The OP is on £60k a year
please list the countries where women can earn that much
not including the EU or the USA ?

Sadly she cannot leave her husband till she gets ILR

FWIW until I got my UK passport I was ultra paranoid of even parking tickets

Did you actually bother reading what Anouk wrote? It would appear not.

Tinkobell: yes, people have been really lovely and this has all been very helpful for getting an outside perspective on the situation as well as some good ideas of what I can do to help myself and DD. I really appreciate it.

He initially refused to go to counseling but now has agreed. We have only had one joint session so far. It went ok but afterward he had the impression that the counselor believed I need extra help (which she said is untrue).

So basically, there is hope that he really wants to fix things but he is so averse to viewing himself unfavourably that it could backfire.

If I moved back to my home country, I could probably get a good job pretty easily. My family would be supportive of me and my daughter has the right to live in my country. My husband would never want her to move away from him and his behaviour would have to be a lot worse for me to do something so cruel to him.

Anouk, thanks very much

Ta2kinpeace: I am definitely on the straight and narrow until I have ILR. The hostile environment is actually really overt, such a pain. How long have you been here?

Oops, Ta1kinpeace.

Also, I should have said above "however, my husband would never..."

In any relationship, there has to be respect and mutual respect no matter who earns what. To be in a mutuallly respectful relationship there are no struggles over who has more say then another, there should always be consideration of the other and how we can each make each other's life easier. That means if it means paying extra money to make one partners life easier and more importantly mean more quality time can be spent with your child then this should not be up to debate. In an mutually respectful relationship there should not criticism on how you prepare meals and how long it takes especially when after a longs days work you are making good quality food for a healthier family. I am very sorry that you are being made to feel this way and perhaps you should consider if this is healthy for your confidence and your child.. he should be putting the child first and look to see how he can help you.

Over 40 years on ILR till I paid up the £2000
the UK has SO lost its way on use of immigrants

Brits just cannot understand the stress

and the day I was locked up by UK customs is SEARED into my brain

I think you could use the time between now and hopefully residency for working on your marriage which you obviously want to do. To be honest it’s completely pointless because he’s not going to change.

However you are not the type of person who would leave without doing everything you can to try to save it. So give yourself these 18 months timeframe and no more. If it can’t be made to work within that time it never will.

I say this because some people focus on the regrets they may have if they don’t do all they can to save the relationship, but they don’t factor in the regrets of staying too long, wasting time flogging a dead horse.

So do all you can, maybe get some therapy on your own to strengthen yourself and analyse him in more detail than we can here. But no more. Don’t waste your life on someone who’s not worthy you or DD.

Sounds sensible to stick it out until leave to remain is through but presumably it is not impossible to move back to South Africa or wherever with the child as sometimes the courts will allow a move by the mother back to her home country and the father loses his prohibited steps application to stop a move such as that. However I think it would be wrong in this case as they could say the mother in law is a major part of the childcare and bond and she is here (and it sounds like the near by nursery place has gone by now).

Try to our earn your husband. It's great fun and changes the power in relationships.