For thinking that this man should be banned from the shop forever?

[Ilovemuesli]

Hi,
So the following happened this morning and I am still in disbelief about it - and wholly disgusted with this man's attitude.

I was sitting in the cafe of a well-known supermarket with a couple of friends and my two month old DD. On the table in front of us were two girls, probably around 19/20 yrs old. They were caring for two boys who were about 9/10 years old and were obviously disabled - in wheelchairs e.t.c. The girls also had some jackets on with a charity logo printed on the back. Across the aisle from their table was a man and his wife having breakfast/coffee.

At one point one of the boys threw his bottle of pop in the air and it unfortunately hit the man's wife in her face. One of the girls immediately stood up to apologise, but the man started ranting and raving, swearing at the two girls who were looking after these boys and shouting at full volume that the children "should be made to leave" and that "they don't belong here". It was very upsetting for the poor children - it took a long time after the man had eventually left for the girls to calm the children down - the boy who threw the pop was particularly distressed.

The cafe assistant fetched the manager who took them aside for a private word then came to see the two girls and apologised, also saying that the wife had asked for a first aider but other than that there was nothing they could do for a genuine accident.

AIBU to still be outraged at this man's behaviour? In my opinion he should be banned from ever entering the shop again - I haven't really described everything he was shouting at them - and also me when I told him he should be ashamed of himself and his behaviour (I may have called him ignorant) It was clear that it was an accident, while I understand it won't have been nice to have had a bottle of pop hit you in the face, but demanding that the children be removed and that they don't belong in the same place as everyone else? In my opinion - he is an absolute disgraceful/disgusting human being. How dare he say that those children shouldn't be allowed in there? It was blatantly obvious that they were disabled and needed extra care, and the girl/carer had tried to apologise straightaway, but the language, the volume and the content of what he was saying is still making my blood boil nearly 11 hours later !

Sorry for the rant! Please tell me if I'm overreacting (!)

Oh dear. You SEEM TO BE GETTIG HET UP. I hope the police don't need to be called as you seem to be rather aggressive. Did the police get called to this criminal matter of a person accidentally being hit by a soft drinks bottle by a person with learning disabilities? Or did the people in the cafe use their common sense perhaps?

Very well said rinabean

I honestly despair of the human race sometimes. I consider myself to be quite short tempered generally but I would not be that angry if that bottle had hit me, my DH or my DS in similar circumstances. I just wouldn't unless it was clear it had been thrown with malicious intent. I know this for a fact as both DS and I have on different occasions been hit by objects thrown by small children and on neither occasion did I get very angry or go ballistic.

It is just not on in any shape or form to lose your temper in this way at someone who obviously did not meant to hurt you. A bit of annoyance,. shock, irritating, asking that the person/carer try to be more careful in future is fine. All out shouting abuse most definitely not ok.

Do you genuinely not understand that people with learning disabilities may not be able to ‘conform to human standards’?

You seriously think that makes someone chinpanzee like.

My son is non verbal, has severe learning disabilities. Of course he doesn’t understand normal human standards. He’s still a fucking human. Although it wasn’t that long ago people like him were gassed I guess.

Well quite bumblingbovine.

He was clearly very angry and could have used much better phrasing. Maybe ‘they shouldn’t be in here with inadequate supervision’? But he might be feeling just as bad as you are about it all.

This child wasn't violent and with the best will in the world there will always be a first time for everything ie have never thrown a bottle, suddenly randomly does. It doesn't make the child violent and it doesn't make the carers crap.
He's entitled to be angry - shock, protectiveness etc but he was utterly UTTERLY wrong to say what he said and to suggest that these children shouldn't be allowed out where he chooses to go

@sugarplumfairly and @cansu - can we get you both in a room together and film what happens?

I would rather spend time with the bottle thrower than with some of the human specimens on here.

I don't think SugarPlumFairly would like me much - I don't appreciate nuance. She certainly wouldn't like my non verbal autistic ds. I couldn't risk it. She would probably sue me if he bumped into her.

Would you really think people should tolerate violence no matter the cause?

Would you take your child out that you know can become violent to a place were they could injury someone else in good concicene since they have a right to be there? (Btw i am not talking about simply Autistic meltdowns were they are not violent but the ones that actually lash out at everyone around them)

In the eyes of the Law they are not responsible for there behavior but there careers ARE responsible and if the careers fail there charge, the charge can suffer as in they can be ordered into a secured home like my uncle and all the careers in charge got was losing their jobs. But their failure caused someone to lose sight in 1 eye because they decided it was a good idea to go to a very crowded market despite it being in his care notes not to take him to crowded places.

So yes disabled people with challenging behavior have a right to go where ever they want but as soon as that challenging behavior involves violence or injury to members of the public options needed to be taken to prevent a repeat as NO ONE for ANY reason whats so ever should have to put up with violence even if said violence is caused by disability.

Or do you think people like my uncle who does not understand what he is doing so continue to go out in public were he could have a melt down and run the risk of serious hurting someone else?

Or do you think someone whose disability expresses itself in violence should be able to lash out and the members of the public should put up with being injured because they need too because its caused by disability?

(i only using the word violence because aggression requires intent and i fully understand that some disabled people cannot control these outbursts and i sympthese with them but i still do not think their rights out weight the rights of the general public not to get injured.

Tbh I can understand where he is coming from. I was stood at a bus stop once and for some unknown reason a car drove past me and one of the passengers threw a bottle of drink in my face. They threw it with so much force it was extremely painful, I couldnt even believe it was just a bottle of drink when I looked down as it hit me so hard, and it was empty. My cheek felt sore for ages after so I can see why he was annoyed

I think if people have fucked up and not read a care plan then the person being cared for should NOT be locked up.

Outrageous. And yes it happens. People with learning disabilities end up in hospital on secure wards for decades because of other people’s fuck ups.

People with learning disabilities do not generally lash out in violence (which incidentally is the word that includes intent) they usually lash out in DISTRESS.

My son by the way has aggressive outbursts when distressed. It is quite possible to manage his behaviour so that he doesn’t put members of the public in danger. He doesn’t need to be locked up.

Tbh I can understand where he is coming from. I was stood at a bus stop once and for some unknown reason a car drove past me and one of the passengers threw a bottle of drink in my face.
But the two scenarios are incomparable. You're taking about an adult with the assumption of no known learning issues who has deliberately done something which could reasonably cause harm vs a child with learning delays doing something with an assumption of no intention of causing harm.

Tbh I can understand where he is coming from. I was stood at a bus stop once and for some unknown reason a car drove past me and one of the passengers threw a bottle of drink in my face

Unless you knew it was thrown by a child in a wheelchair and you'd chase after them screaming at them, how is that even slightly comparable?

Some really shocking comments on this thread

@Devilish I know you are referencing someone else’s deleted post when you say “conform to human standards” but just to be clear, it’s neurotypical standards. Not “human standards”
For those trying to compare an accident with regular outbursts that result in injury to the public- why are you doing this? To make your point seem more justified and less bigoted?
Anyone is capable of being violent.
Anyone is also capable of causing an accident.
Anger may be an understandable response but bigotry should never be an understandable response & I despair at the PPs here who think it is.

@duskqueen if im really responsible for people locking themselves indoors and never venturing outside, then that’s quite an accolade. I doubt it though.

Actually, if it’s a choice between you staying indoors and me getting hit in the face from something your toddler has launched across a cafe because you weren’t supervising properly, I’d rather you stayed where you are.

What you’re essentially telling me is that the rights of the parent/ career of the child who cannot be trusted not to throw projectiles which may end up hitting someone trumps my desire to simply not want to be injured/hurt/covered in food or drink whilst enjoying a coffee.

Parents generally don't choose take their child out to somewhere they would feel extreme distress because they wouldn't want them to feel extreme distress, Parents with severely disabled children love their children and don't want them to feel extreme distress.

The child in question wasn't having a violent meltdown.

because you weren’t supervising properly

No evidence at all that the children were not being supervised properly.

As for the tights of the parent/carer who cannot be trusted not to throw projectiles

Er can ANY toddler be trusted not throw anything? They’re unpredictable creatures. Even Ds2 who was the most compliant toddler I have come across could quite easily have chucked something if the notion entered his tiny brain.

Are you seriously saying that only older children and adults who are are a particular type (yep neurotypical I guess) should be allowed out? Because that’s what you ARE saying with all this talk of only people who can be ‘trusted’ being allowed out.

My son started throwing stuff at 18 having never thrown anything in his life. Never at someone (he actually wouldn’t understand the concept of throwing something to hurt someone). Lock him up? Or adapt care plans & understand & work on the issues that led to the throwing in the first place?

I still maintain that angry middle aged men with poor control of their temper are more dangerous to the general public than people with learning disabilities who are properly supported.

Disabled people have the same obligations to society as anybody else. Throwing bottles is unacceptable because of the risk of hitting people in the face. As actually happened. If you (or those responsible for you) cannot control your bottle-throwing tendencies then you should not be out in public.