For thinking that this man should be banned from the shop forever?

[Ilovemuesli]

Hi,
So the following happened this morning and I am still in disbelief about it - and wholly disgusted with this man's attitude.

I was sitting in the cafe of a well-known supermarket with a couple of friends and my two month old DD. On the table in front of us were two girls, probably around 19/20 yrs old. They were caring for two boys who were about 9/10 years old and were obviously disabled - in wheelchairs e.t.c. The girls also had some jackets on with a charity logo printed on the back. Across the aisle from their table was a man and his wife having breakfast/coffee.

At one point one of the boys threw his bottle of pop in the air and it unfortunately hit the man's wife in her face. One of the girls immediately stood up to apologise, but the man started ranting and raving, swearing at the two girls who were looking after these boys and shouting at full volume that the children "should be made to leave" and that "they don't belong here". It was very upsetting for the poor children - it took a long time after the man had eventually left for the girls to calm the children down - the boy who threw the pop was particularly distressed.

The cafe assistant fetched the manager who took them aside for a private word then came to see the two girls and apologised, also saying that the wife had asked for a first aider but other than that there was nothing they could do for a genuine accident.

AIBU to still be outraged at this man's behaviour? In my opinion he should be banned from ever entering the shop again - I haven't really described everything he was shouting at them - and also me when I told him he should be ashamed of himself and his behaviour (I may have called him ignorant) It was clear that it was an accident, while I understand it won't have been nice to have had a bottle of pop hit you in the face, but demanding that the children be removed and that they don't belong in the same place as everyone else? In my opinion - he is an absolute disgraceful/disgusting human being. How dare he say that those children shouldn't be allowed in there? It was blatantly obvious that they were disabled and needed extra care, and the girl/carer had tried to apologise straightaway, but the language, the volume and the content of what he was saying is still making my blood boil nearly 11 hours later !

Sorry for the rant! Please tell me if I'm overreacting (!)

sugarPlumFairly if someone doesn't have mental capacity they won't be held responsible. Carers might have some responsibility but only if found negligent.

People with severe learning difficulties are allowed out these days and if you don't like it then you can always stay in.

Of course people with special needs and learning difficulties should be allowed out.

The problems are safeguarding both child and the public and the carers have failed that duty and now are liable for any trouble as they will now have to fill in a report and explain their positions. Of course its a nasty accident and the child throwing it is not to blame.
But the witch hunt for the man is ridiculous as well. No one came away from the situation unharmed.

Fucking prick. I absolutely hate people like him. I’m glad you said something to him OP.

Disabled people shouldn't be in public, and if they ever do anything wrong then its perfectly acceptable to scream and shout at them until they cry and tell them they shouldn't be allowed out?

I'm disabled and I haven't seen anyone on this thread say we shouldn't be allowed out or that we deserve to be yelled at if we do something wrong.

Am I missing something here?

And please do not refer to people as 'creatures'. As a disabled person, I have had this one slung at me before and it's a horrible thing to call someone, regardless of what you think of them.

I am sorry I was just highlighting that yes disabled people are allowed out in public but if their challenging behavior involved violence too the members of the public it should be properly managed.

Most people are understanding of swearing, shouting, loud volume with talking, having meltdowns etc but rightly peoples tolerance of being assaulted no matter the reasons should be extremely low no one has the right to be violent to anyone even if that violence is linked to disability and if they cannot be managed properly in public then sadly its reasonable if they are violent to members of the public they should not be in a sitaution where they can be violent.

I have autism and my children have a mix of autism and ADHD when my oldest was younger he would have extremly violent meltdowns and i mean really violent he broke my husband hand when he was 7 level of violence so it was decided by me and my DH until he was old enough to have coping mechisms we would avoid places that would trigger said meltdowns.

Thankfully know he is older he can handle himself much much better and as coping mechisms but I for one thought it was unfair to him to expose him to things that could trigger his meltdowns and unfair to others that could be potentally harmed during said meltdowns.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread say we shouldn't be allowed out or that we deserve to be yelled at if we do something wrong

Then you need to re read, several posters said it was perfectly normal and understandable for the man to shout at them like that, and that he was correct that if they were a danger to others they should be not be there. They are 9 year olds in wheelchairs, not terrorists. Yes his wife got hurt, but shit happens. You deal.

Man was an utter dick, as are half the people on this thread.

Shit happens ok tell me that if a disabled person has a violent meltdown and seriously injurys your baby / child and come back and say aww well shit happens.

If the 9 year olds regualer throw things then they should not be in a postion to throw dangerous objects if that means they cannot have access to knifes and forks / bottles so be it there right to be somewhere does NOT trump someone else right to be somewhere and not get assualted / injuried.

Even the legal system understands this they wont go to prison held reasponsable for the "crime" but they may well be forced to me homed in a secured home were they cannot injury members of the public (i do not mean prison but homes for disabled people like were my uncle is now homed) he is not treated like a criminal the only difference to his life now is that all trips out are heavily managed and they dont go out to supermarkets etc and they at minium are 2 to 1 staff to person ratio's when they do go on trips.

This is all so interesting - @Sugarplumfairly's question in particular: "What levels of violence should be forgiven and for which 'kind' of people?" If a schoolboy sustains a campaign of bullying against a disabled child in his class, should that schoolboy be allowed to continue his campaign because he has ADHD?

What we are questioning is the appropriateness of taking unpredictable kids into a situation which could cause harm to others. And, in the spirit of tolerance, why are we not tolerating the emotions of the man whose wife was hit in the face? Anger, albeit in an unpleasant ranting form, is what happens when someone sees a loved one get hurt. If you want to protect children (disabled or not) from seeing the angry consequences of their actions, then maybe it is you who are inadvertently recommending that these children be protected from the reality of our society.
We can forgive the child for throwing the drink, we can forgive the supervisors for dropping their focus, and we can forgive the man for being upset.

Then you need to re read, several posters said it was perfectly normal and understandable for the man to shout at them like that

It was understandable but that doesn't make it right.

If I was hit on the head with a bottle then I might be upset. I might start shouting and say things I don't mean and will regret later. That wouldn't make my reaction right but people do strange things when upset and angry. That's what people mean when they say it's an understandable reaction. It has nothing to do with saying we should be locked up and not let out.

Man was an utter dick, as are half the people on this thread.

You have no idea what is going on in this mans life or anyone else's for that matter. A little less of the judgmental attitude would be great.

Strictly speaking it is called behaviour that challenges which emphasises that it is the responsibility of others to work on preventing it and not the person who has done it's fault.

sugarPlumFairly I did answer your question. No mental capacity equals no responsibility

Shit happens ok tell me that if a disabled person has a violent meltdown and seriously injurys your baby / child and come back and say aww well shit happens

That didn't happen her so what the fuck has it got to do with anything?

You have no idea what is going on in this mans life or anyone else's for that matter. A little less of the judgmental attitude would be great.

I don't give a shit whats going on in his life. Telling me to be less judgemental about a judgemental prick? Jog on. Try to make some sense.

Just replying to the previous poster saying shit happens deal with it and i was pointing out thats so easy for someone to say on the internet a completly different kettle of fish it it happens to them or there loved ones in real life hence why i made that point.

@SugarPlumFairly my brother isn't a danger to anyone, but he has the limb control of a 10 month old and can easily knock something if you turn your back for a second same as a child.
These boys weren't an actual danger to anyone, he didn't intentionally throw the bottle at the woman for a laugh, it was a pure accident, the same as if a child had done it, which by all accounts they were anyway as the OP said they were about 10/11 and again depending on their disability probably the mental age of someone much younger. Yes it was bad for the woman who got hit, but this man totally overreacted at a genuine accident.

worridmum the boys weren't having a violent meltdown. A baby or child is more likely by someone without severe learning difficulties than someone with.

There was a thread on here years ago where the OP was upset about an incident in a cafe involving her autistic daughter. To cut a long story short, I recognised myself as the person she was ranting about and because there were understanding people on the thread who suggested that there might be more going on and I could have SN myself, I felt able to post and give my side of the story.

I for one am grateful that people on here take time to consider other possibilities instead of just assuming the worst. You might think it's silly but I think it's far better than just assuming the worst about people constantly.

That should say is more likely to be injured by.

Jog on.

I'm disabled and no, I will not 'jog on'. I have has much right to be here as anyone else.

As a side note, this thread has reminded me why I avoid these threads these days. Too many exhausting people on them.

There is no possible reasonable excuse for "They don't belong here". Only someone with a certain sort of mindset would say that

I am not going to let this thread upset me however. I have come to realise that life is too short for that shit .

His wife had just taken a drinks bottle to the face. But for the children being there, his wife would not have just taken a drinks bottle to the face. Surely you can see why he chooses those words? They are inflammatory, ill-chosen and upsetting, but so was the situation he suddenly found himself in.

tell my children (I'm a Principal) that 'rights mean responsibility' and I stand by this. If you have no responsibility then you have no rights. How am I wrong?

You're a Principal but you don't understand that if someone throws a bottle without capacity for understanding the consequences or any intent to harm, they therefore are not personally responsible for the harm? And you actually think that such people have no rights?

A baby has no responsibilities, do you imagine they have no rights?

Principal? I do hope not.