For thinking that this man should be banned from the shop forever?

[Ilovemuesli]

Hi,
So the following happened this morning and I am still in disbelief about it - and wholly disgusted with this man's attitude.

I was sitting in the cafe of a well-known supermarket with a couple of friends and my two month old DD. On the table in front of us were two girls, probably around 19/20 yrs old. They were caring for two boys who were about 9/10 years old and were obviously disabled - in wheelchairs e.t.c. The girls also had some jackets on with a charity logo printed on the back. Across the aisle from their table was a man and his wife having breakfast/coffee.

At one point one of the boys threw his bottle of pop in the air and it unfortunately hit the man's wife in her face. One of the girls immediately stood up to apologise, but the man started ranting and raving, swearing at the two girls who were looking after these boys and shouting at full volume that the children "should be made to leave" and that "they don't belong here". It was very upsetting for the poor children - it took a long time after the man had eventually left for the girls to calm the children down - the boy who threw the pop was particularly distressed.

The cafe assistant fetched the manager who took them aside for a private word then came to see the two girls and apologised, also saying that the wife had asked for a first aider but other than that there was nothing they could do for a genuine accident.

AIBU to still be outraged at this man's behaviour? In my opinion he should be banned from ever entering the shop again - I haven't really described everything he was shouting at them - and also me when I told him he should be ashamed of himself and his behaviour (I may have called him ignorant) It was clear that it was an accident, while I understand it won't have been nice to have had a bottle of pop hit you in the face, but demanding that the children be removed and that they don't belong in the same place as everyone else? In my opinion - he is an absolute disgraceful/disgusting human being. How dare he say that those children shouldn't be allowed in there? It was blatantly obvious that they were disabled and needed extra care, and the girl/carer had tried to apologise straightaway, but the language, the volume and the content of what he was saying is still making my blood boil nearly 11 hours later !

Sorry for the rant! Please tell me if I'm overreacting (!)

the link by devilish gives the definition of a hate incident - I was interested enough to click on the link.

It’s easy to say how you should react when you’re posting on a thread on the internet and completely divorced from the situation.

If I got hit in the face by something someone had thrown I’d be bloody angry as well, and I doubt I’d react well to the situation. Not many people would.

Sounds like he was in shock and reacted badly. He was wrong, but understandably so.

That would have bloody killed and as someone rightly pointed out, it could have hit a baby. Not condoning quite how angry the man got but I can understand it.

I have been hit by flying objects on more than one occasion. Including an iPod in the head while driving. Good job I managed not to have a rage reaction.

A hate incident can be reported to the police. I suppose a one off wouldn’t be prosecuted. Apologies for using the wrong word.

I’d still log it with the police.

Not because the children have disabilities but because these disabilities are not being appropriately managed?

How do you know they weren’t being properly managed. The only time I have seen a flying object hit a stranger (& I have seen a lot of flying objects) it was thrown by a 2 year old. Should 2 year olds be banned from public spaces.

And those of you saying ‘they’ shouldn’t be there - where should ‘they’ be?

...and tolerance ends a good two feet before being hit in the face begins.

He was a shit and probably realised it immediately after/during his demonstration, but fundamentally this will have put a shot across the bows for the young carers. You can't always stop vulnerable people provoking others, in many cases that's impossible, but where you can stop them hurting others it's on you to do so.

And how could they have stopped it?

My friend couldn’t stop her two year old hitting a stranger with a flying object. A one off incident. How much abuse would have been acceptable in that case.

If a child a different race than you hit you accidentally with a flying object would it be acceptable to shout ‘they don’t belong here’?

(I would say exactly the same if it were 2 year olds. If someone started shouting about "disgusting fucking kids" after their loved one was hit in the face I would probably get angry, but in the cold light of day I wouldn't think they hated kids I would think they were freaking out because their peace was disturbed by a shocking blow to the face)

You would think that shouting and carrying on using threatening language while the two year old was distressed was acceptable?

Right.

And back to where should ‘they’ be? No-one has answered that.

Devilish - I know that they weren't being appropriately managed because a woman got hit in the face by a projectile thrown by one of them. At that moment in time, the child that threw the bottle wasn't being appropriately managed. Just like if my child ran into the path of a car, he would have been able to do that because I was not appropriately managing him at that point in time.

"Where should they be"? In the cafe. Being appropriately managed.

And if it was the first time he had chucked a bottle? How could that have been better managed?

Have you ever looked after a child with disabilities? Or are you coming from a position of absolutely no experience at all?

And given that this bottle (despite risk assessments) ended up being chucked what should happen now? Should the child ever be allowed in a cafe again? Or is that it and are cafes now off the list forever?

Op...it really depends. His wife might be ill, had dental problem or had a brain tumour like my gran. Someone throwing a bottle at her would leave her in agony

I agree with this, so much.

From his reaction I would assume there is far more going on in their lives than you could possibly imagine.

The carers were very much at fault here and should have been supervising. If they were unable to control the children than maybe they should be more careful about where they took them.

I had some very difficult cancer treatment and it was a while before I felt able to go out and do normal things like sitting in a supermarket cafe. Getting hit in the face with a bottle would have set me back weeks.

And how do you ‘appropriately manage’ throwing in a cafe?

If it has happened before I suppose you could move the bottle out of reach when not drinking from it & use a straw and hold the bottle. If it’s the first time how do you appropriately manage that?

If you think people need to have something going on in their lives to shout abuse at disabled people then you haven’t been out with many people with disabilities.

If you think people need to have something going on in their lives to shout abuse at disabled people then you haven’t been out with many people with disabilities.

Bollocks to that. I have a disabled family member and we are very often out and about. No one has ever shouted at him in 40 years. We manage his behaviour which can be very erratic.

You would think that shouting and carrying on using threatening language while the two year old was distressed was acceptable?

No, I think it would make you a shit, as I said above.

I also think it would be understandable to some extent for someone to be shocked/angry and say stuff they didn't mean in this situation, would know it was me who was responsible/had failed because the incident happened, and would probably let them spund off, then offer to call an ambulance if warranted/pay for their meal. Nobody else has signed up for my responsibilities and they shouldn't affect them in this way.

All off I ever see anyone shouting ‘they don’t belong here’ at any minority group I will be reporting it as a hate incident. Anger or not it is not acceptable.

You’re lucky then stepback - we’ve had all sorts of abuse - I think learning disabilities attract abuse tbh.

Depressing thread indeed. All this ‘what if..,’ is a load of bollocks. The half empty bottle didn’t hit a baby or a hot cup of tea. The fact is that a the bottle hit a lady, nothing more. She received an apology but the man was verbally abusive and disablist to the point the child was very distressed. The children are members of the public who are entitled to use the cafe and enjoy refreshments like anyone else. Who knows if the boy normally throws drinks or if this is a one off. There will always be occasional surprises even with the best risk assessment and the best staff. The bottle throwing was apologised for and was most likely an accident with no intent to hurt anyone. On the other hand the man was disablist and verbally abusive.

I think an understandable reaction in this situation would be to declare that if the carers cannot keep the boys or other customers safe, they shouldn’t be there (the bottle could equally have hit the carers or one of the boys). Members of the public aren’t trained carers and often have no concept of risk assessments.

Some people blow up in much the same way when their car is hit declaring the other driver to be incapable of being on the road and much worse. Maybe this man would have said much the same sort of thing if it were an exhuberant NT 4 yo. I do think had this been another woman and another husband, he may well have punched the child so it is also important to keep the children safe and thank goodness it was words and nothing more.

Idk if the man meant his words to come off as disablist. From what you’ve said, I think he did and we often use shortened language and lose our words in reaction to a stressful and dangerous situation so to a certain extent I’d cut him some slack.

I’m disabled btw. I have chronic pain, chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. I recently had a hysterectomy for advanced adenomyosis and endometriosis. I have born the brunt of my disablist family so I do understand how it feels to be treated very much as less than. Had I been hit in the face by the bottle, it would have been very serious for me and I may have needed paramedics.

I don’t go out much at all. Hardly ever. Were dh and I near these children we would have had to move away to protect me. I would have been really scared. I think it is often forgotten that there are a lot of hidden disabilities.

It's bad behaviour, but I would not consider banning someone for this unless it was a serious incident (ie assault or very frightening). In that case, yes.

If not, I would be more interested in how the man behaves when people are not being hit in the face, because that's the baseline we should all be judged on, that's the situation we should all be able to assume we will be in.

Hmm I saw a man cause a car accident a couple of weeks ago - he drove straight into an elderly woman’s car. He then got out and started screaming abuse at her - so yes you have a point done bullying twats will always behave appallingly.

I intervened until staff came along and have acted as a witness for the elderly lady. Filled in the car insurance statement this week (& was very happy to do so).

His behaviour was unacceptable as was this mans.

Well i’ve been hit a lot by disabled people - some a lot larger than me - and never felt the need to scream and shout abuse or carry on like an out of control bully. It’s not actually that difficult - if we’re talking risks I would say he poses the bigger risk to society (men who can’t control their tempers cause more damage than disabled children).

Depressing thread indeed. All this ‘what if..,’ is a load of bollocks. The half empty bottle didn’t hit a baby or a hot cup of tea. The fact is that a the bottle hit a lady, nothing more. She received an apology but the man was verbally abusive and disablist to the point the child was very distressed. The children are members of the public who are entitled to use the cafe and enjoy refreshments like anyone else. Who knows if the boy normally throws drinks or if this is a one off. There will always be occasional surprises even with the best risk assessment and the best staff. The bottle throwing was apologised for and was most likely an accident with no intent to hurt anyone. On the other hand the man was disablist and verbally abusive.

Agreed a very sad state of affairs- it was an accident, apologised for immediately- he should have spent his time ensuring his wife was ok- how did shouting at the children help her exactly. Well done OP for sticking up for them the cafe should've done more too I think you should send an email in. As pphave said you need an incident to drive a risk assessment , let's just deal with the facts we have in front of us