To be upset that the NHS 'pay raise' has cost me a grand?!

[AgathaMystery]

Just this.

My pay is £86 down this month. That's £1,032 a year. What a lovely reward for a decade of service.

I'm glad I voted no. Sorry NHS staff hate to strike.

It’s disgusting that a NQ nurse should have to start on 21k

They don't though, the bottom of band 5 is over 23k. Increments have been on borrowed time for years, they don't exist in the private sector. I've worked in many roles in the NHS and in the private sector. Overall, when the amount of annual leave we get is taken into account, and our decent pension scheme, I'm satisfied with the reward I recieve. And I say that as someone who was make redundant from the NHS and dropped 4 bands just to be working.

This is awful, but unsurprising unfortunately. It’s the way this government are treating us. I work in another government department, we’ve just been offered a pay deal of 3% per year for three years. Except our terms and conditions of employment will be changed and we will have to work more hours, overtime rates scrapped, sick pay reduced, mileage rates reduced. It goes on. They seem to be treating us all the same, yet all the press just report on “the end of austerity”. It isn’t, we are all going to be worse off. I’m angry for all of us.

I think you’re a lone voice onwhitehorses. Justifiably so. I don’t know how many times to say it, increments give the government a way of ensuring cheap labour for several years until someone reaches the top of their band. If increments were removed then people wouldn’t tolerate a nurses salary being 23k or 28k forever more. Those numbers are only tolerated as folk know it will rise to an approximation of their true worth as a qualified professional.

Larry no-one (I am aware of) has a problem with competency based pay rises, but increments for service (which are not called pay rises) is disingenuous at best.

But they aren’t just for length of service, I’ve always had to pass my appraisal (for want of a better phrase) in order to achieve my increment. I have to set targets and achieve them or be strongly working on the way towards them or my increment isn’t awarded. And yes. I have seen people not given their increment. I refused to green light someone for their appraisal in the last 6 months as they hadn’t met any of the objectives we set last time.

Exactly Carol, you dont need to be anything other than performing at an acceptable level to get incremental pay rises. To quote NHS Employers:

Annex 23 of AfC states that incremental pay progression will be conditional upon you demonstrating that you have the requisite knowledge and skills/competencies for the role and that you have demonstrated the required level of performance and delivery.

Or in other words, pitching up and doing your job competently. Which is something every member of staff should be doing, or should be working on rectifying ages in advance of an annual appraisal. I've never worked anywhere else where (apart from the last few years of frozen pay) you get 2 annual pay rises for such a long time, but one of them isnt called that.

It's about all staff being paid appropriately (not just nurses). I think we will see the end of annual increments in years to come - they are already heading that way - with starting salary moving upwards instead.

I used to be top band 5. now working as a bank nurse in the same unit and have had to drop down to first increment again. Still doing the same job with 30 years experience. It's crap.

BabyRoobs
You have, perhaps unwittingly, misunderstood what final salary pensions mean.
It does not mean you retire on your final salary - contrary to what many people think - it means you retire on a sum linked to your final salary amount. I can't remember what the actual figure is but it will be something like 1/70th of your final salary x the number of years service you have. So if you are a nurse on £40k a year and you have 30 years service your pension would be approx £17k. Better than a lot of other pensions I agree but far far removed from retiring on £40k a year (for life). And hardly gold plated given that you have worked for 30 years.
This is the sort of shit that perpetuates the 'gold-plated' pension myth.

Especially since most nurses do not earn £40a year.

I know quite a few on top Band 5 who work mainly nights so can quite easily earn almost 40k with night and weekend enhancements. Plus with doing 12 hour shifts they do overtime too at time and two thirds each shift. There is always overtime available.

But overtime etc isn’t pensionable.

I know quite a few on top Band 5 who work mainly nights so can quite easily earn almost 40k with night and weekend enhancements

Let's fact check this for a moment...

Top band 5 is currently £28746. It takes 8 years to reach that. After 8 years Service you have 37 days annual leave, or 41 days annual leave after 10 years.

The majority of nights are paid at time+30%.

Someone who works full time works 44.6 weeks a year for 8 years Service and 43.8 weeks a year for 10+ years.

Enhancements are not paid during annual leave.

£28746/52*43.8 = £24102.42 enhanceable pay (as pay is not enhanced during annual leave.

£24102.42/100*130 = £31333.

Absolutely no way is anyone earning £40k at band 5 unless they are working every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night 52 weeks a year. Or they are consistently working 48 hours a week on nights.

Top band 5 is currently £28746. It takes 8 years to reach that. After 8 years Service you have 37 days annual leave, or 41 days annual leave after 10 years.

Eh? That's not right. You have 29 days of annual leave after 5 years of service, and 33 after 10. Are you accidentally adding in public holidays there?

Eh? That's not right. You have 29 days of annual leave after 5 years of service, and 33 after 10. Are you accidentally adding in public holidays there

No I deliberate added in the 8 days public service as shift workers annual leave is calculated by hours eg I get 262.5 hours off a year including public holidays. I'm assuming you have a 9-5 job or don't work for the nhs?

Haha at the 9 - 5 comment. I was clinical for many years working shifts in the NHS and work in the NHS now (just the 30+ years so far). Dont think I've ever worked a 9 - 5 day, but there we go.

Leave for shift workers is calculated in hours, but the hours are made up of annual leave and public holidays. They are amalgamated for ease, but that doesnt mean your annual leave entitlement is 37 or 42 days. That's important as you may work a BH, (but not AL unless you buy or sell AL) and get an enhanced rate, so they arent the same thing.

They're not amalgamated for ease.Most of us now have annual leave hour as the poster said above.So if your working a bank holiday you simply haven't used annual leave,if you have it as a day off the same,if you take it as an annual leave day then that comes of your hours.What comes off depends on the length of the shift your taking off.

I'm wondering what is going to happen to those whose pay has gone down when we get the back pay,does this mean they will loose a lump sum and if that comes out of next months pay in one go how are people going to manage?

Yes, you do have annual leave hours, but they are added to your public holiday hours, they aren't the same thing. When you have reached 5 years' service, your AL entitlement goes up, but your BH allowance doesnt change. If you arent rostered to work a BH, you can take your BH hours when you want so they work like AL, but they arent actually annual leave if that makes sense. It's in section 13 if you want to read it.

I was going to come on and moan I'm only receiving an extra £46 per month at the top of my band - now I feel one of the lucky ones! I feel so ashamed I was naive enough to vote 'yes' to the pay deal and believed what our union pushed which was basically 'it's a good deal, if you vote no then the offer will be removed and you will be worse off'

Secretarial services in my trust has just undergone a review - I've been renamed senior secretary in my team as opposed to medical secretary as I have years of experience at the highest band for a secretary - along with the name change includes taking on some of the duties of my immediate line manager on a band above me - for no wage increase.

No wonder staff are leaving in droves. Disgusting.

I voted no but that’s only because I am deeply cynical and never believe anything anyone tells me. Tbh I think the unions were right in one way, a bad pay deal would have been pushed through one way or the other.

My point was, they are hours for which enhancements are not paid unless they are worked. So in terms of calculating how much someone on perm nights would get paid it was necessary to exclude the hours, and this debate has detracted from the fact that I was attempting to dispel a myth that top band 5 nurses can get paid £40k a year, so well done 🤨

I'm wondering what is going to happen to those whose pay has gone down when we get the back pay,does this mean they will loose a lump sum and if that comes out of next months pay in one go how are people going to manage?

I've gone down a point but I'm still £400 a year better off in terms of gross salary. It will be in August when I will be worse off under the new system than I was under the old system. From April - August we have just received a cost of living uplift - the new scale doesn't actually start until next month.

On the old pay scale in August I would have been on £24547, on the new pay scale I will be on £24214 in August and not the £26970 I was lead to believe.

Thought I'd do an update for any NHS staff that were affected by the new pay deal.

I was so furious about the crappy deal that I decided I was going to leave the NHS by January 1 2020.

Last year after the pay debacle I did some research & discovered that at most Trusts my job is done by a consultant (!!). This probably won't surprise NHS colleagues.

Anyway, I applied for & got a new role in my area of specialty but outside the NHS. I did it part time alongside my NHS role for a year to see how I found it. I have just doubled my hours there & resigned from the NHS.

I am so glad to be leaving such a toxic organisation.